Indoctrination / DoublethinkLesbians who won't fuck transwomen are bigots but that's not what I said

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[–]howdidthishappen 28 insightful - 9 fun28 insightful - 8 fun29 insightful - 9 fun -  (1 child)

My son is gay. Recently I asked him, would you consider having sex with a trans man. He pondered it. Then he said, “I think so — it’d be interesting to have a different kind of sex while still being with a man.” (this was an unprompted, uncoached answer.)

Umm why does he apparently normally coach his son on what to say lmao

Something I am challenging, in the article, is: is the person attracted to women, or attracted to a specific body part?

I’m attracted to women and woman's bodies. Only women have this “specific body” part. And also yes I like that a lot, thanks for asking.

I am inviting lesbians to consider that, if a woman rejects another woman because this woman has a surgical vagina, then that’s (to a smaller or bigger degree) driven by prejudice.

I am inviting him to consider that a surgically arranged penis and scrotum is not a vagina.

In her heart-of-hearts, is she thinking “she’s not a real woman”?

Yes I am. Because it’s true.

I’m saying that a lesbian woman may enjoy sex with another woman even if this other woman has a penis (I have very much seen it happen).

What a creepy way to say that. And that wasn’t a lesbian

mild distaste to outright revulsion at the notion of using their equivalent of a clitoris for penetrative purposes.

That’s called a penis, sir.

What I define as bigotry/prejudice as pre-conceived notions of who one would sleep with or date, driven by cultural constructs or assumptions, without personal experience.

What I define as repackaged homophobic arguments, is telling me I can’t possibly know that I don’t want to be with men without having tried. Funny how it’s once again a man telling me that, just doesn’t think he is one now.

I am inviting each person to explore themselves, in their heart, and see if they find pockets of prejudice.

Nope sorry, still homosexual.

What is driving one’s comfort or discomfort with another human? I’m just asking for introspection.

After thorough introspection, I’ve concluded that my discomfort with this particular human is driven by his homophobia

There are so many possibilities. Is one woman simply not attracted to the other? (too butch, too femme, too tall, too short, too nerdy, too whatever?)

Too male. One too many Y chromosomes for my taste. Too much dick and balls.

What I’m trying to have you consider is that there is a lot to unpack here

Whenever people say this you just know it will be an absolute dumpster fire and there will be absolutely nothing of value said

After looking him up, I also found the absolute most ironic blog post of the century made by him two years ago:

A look at coercive sex through a young woman’s eyes. The #MeToo movement is inspiring a lot of conversations about consent. And that is good. But I wanted to show, show men in particular, what it’s like to be confronted with coercive sex — the emotions it generates. I wanted you to see it through our eyes.

Can’t make this shit up.

[–]DropItLikeItsHot 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Her son is probably well aware of her social justice warrior gendertrender bullshit and knows what the "correct", expected answer was anyways.

[–]julesburm1891 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It is common for trans women to express mild distaste or outright revulsion at the notion of using their equivalent of a clitoris for penetrative purposes.

Then why is every trans sub filled with transbians fantasizing about fucking lesbians with their dick?

the stereotypes one sees in porn are male-gaze driven, and usually reflect survival sex work.

Show me the high demand for lesbians wanting trans hookers. (I’ll give you a hint—it’s zero.) The author is pretending the experiences of homosexual transwomen who do work in prostitution are equal to transbians’. Presumably very few straight woman are paying to fuck a dude in a dress and no lesbian is paying to fuck a dude. Furthermore, the only people who would be into transbian porn are transbians. Neither lesbians more regular straight men have anything to do with your bullshit.

Anyways, my entire question to this article is this: If I should consider why I’m not attracted to the opposite sex when they identify as women, why should I not consider why I’m not attracted to the opposite sex at all? What’s the difference?

[–]DropItLikeItsHot 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then why is every trans sub filled with transbians fantasizing about fucking lesbians with their dick?

Because gaslighting is crucial to the ongoing perpetuation of their normalization of rape.

[–]Fusrodamus 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

My son is gay. Recently I asked him, would you consider having sex with a trans man. He pondered it. Then he said, “I think so — it’d be interesting to have a different kind of sex while still being with a man.” (this was an unprompted, uncoached answer.)

You're a transwoman asking your son if he sees transmen as real mean. The very act of asking is prompting a particular answer. He knows the answer that you want to hear and knows that it will remain entirely hypothetical for him. And I'm sure you've taught him plenty about how to navigate a minefield of narcissism when presented with an obviously leading question.

What I define as bigotry/prejudice as pre-conceived notions of who one would sleep with or date, driven by cultural constructs or assumptions, without personal experience.

"How can you know you don't like dick if you've never tried it?"

By this I am not accusing lesbians who don’t sleep with trans women of being bigots, every last one of them. I am inviting each person to explore themselves, in their heart, and see if they find pockets of prejudice.

No, it's not an invitation. I know this because I've seen what happens to lesbians who decline it.

I once had a white lesbian tell me, “I could never go down on a Black woman.”

No, you didn't. You're a liar and you're making this up. Also, you're a disgusting racist.

What I’m trying to have you consider is that there is a lot to unpack here,

I've found that whenever someone says "there is a lot to unpack here," it's best to just throw away the entire suitcase.

and I’m just hoping to start people thinking about all of this.

No, you're hoping you can coerce lesbians into fucking you using the specter of bigotry. You're a rapist.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 15 insightful - 5 fun15 insightful - 4 fun16 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

I can't be bothered to read something when they open with equating a vector to a spectrum...

[–]endless_assfluff 8 insightful - 8 fun8 insightful - 7 fun9 insightful - 8 fun -  (2 children)

Two words: GENDER EIGENVALUES.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

How dare you claim my genders are orthogonal, you bigot TERF!

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Two words: GENDER EIGENVALUES.

Oh my god, lol. Did not expect to see that kind of math reference in this sub.

[–]our_team_is_winning 11 insightful - 9 fun11 insightful - 8 fun12 insightful - 9 fun -  (1 child)

if a woman rejects another woman because this woman has a surgical vagina

If a (shuffles deck) pigeon refuses to mate with another "pigeon" because it's actually a human child wearing a costume pair of wings

If a person who wants an apple refuses to eat this "apple" which is really a raw potato I painted red

If someone wants rice with their meal and refuses the "rice" that is actually maggots

Things that don't exist: surgical vaginas

[–]Rag3 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

If a person who wants an apple refuses to eat this "apple" which is really a raw potato I painted red

🤣🤣

[–]endless_assfluff 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

AT NO POINT do I say that lesbians who don’t sleep with people if they do not want to are bigots.

...

I am inviting lesbians to consider that, if a woman rejects another woman because this woman has a surgical vagina, then that’s (to a smaller or bigger degree) driven by prejudice.

...

By this I am not accusing lesbians who don’t sleep with trans women of being bigots, every last one of them. I am inviting each person to explore themselves, in their heart, and see if they find pockets of prejudice.

Dude. Gaslight harder.

Come to think of it, this person's argument seems to be "I didn't specifically use the word 'bigot.'" Another case where the label is valued over the word's actual meaning.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know this post is a few days old but just wanted to point out some of the awesome comments on this article that called the author out:

You’re saying exactly that, just out of the side of your mouth by not-so-subtly implying you’d be a bigot if you don’t. Lesbians expressing their sexual agency and saying ‘No’ to trans women are instantly and vehemently labeled as TERFs. And how does the community treat said women?

Do me a favour and mind your own business about who lesbians ought to be attracted to. This narrative has never been acceptable. You start by saying your not calling those lesbians bigots, but spend the whole article shaming them, talking about bigotry and prejudice, and saying there's a lot to unpack. It echoes of conversion therapy. Lesbians don't have to unpack anything, no means no, it really is that simple.

By even asking the question you are buying into rape culture. A person is never a bigot for having a preference for a sexual partner. A person may have both genital preferences and gender presentation preferences and that is okay. But gay men and lesbian women are not bigots for having preferences. To even right this is to say that homosexuality is wrong. You are being homophobic.

Didn't the Kinsey Scale already address this? Why try to (poorly) reinvent the wheel and simultaneously turn homosexuality or heterosexuality into a pathology? Your son is probably a little bisexual, as are most people willing to sleep with people of both sexes. This is a semantic game nobody should be interested in playing. If you were born male and are trans, you are still of the male sex and engaging in sex with a woman is a heterosexual act, not a lesbian act. I'm baffled as to why this is even up for discussion.