BisexualActing as if 'bisexual' is a forbidden word

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[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ironically, there are people calling this man gay. To be fair, there is no way a straight man would want a penis. But the word bisexual exists for a reason.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And this isn't that reason.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

I don't see any (obvious) bisexual people responding so...yeah no. As we keep saying, bisexuality does not mean "okay with mismatched parts." Pass.

[–]reluctant_commenter 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Curious, would you distinguish between bisexual and pansexual in this situation, then? Or more just like, emphasizing that it's important to not assume that all bisexual people are fine with dating trans-identified people?

Sometimes when I see bisexual people talking on this sub, there seems to be 1. some whose attraction differs based on sex and 2. those whose attraction does not differ regardless of sex. Perhaps there's some difference in experience there? Not speaking from my own personal experience so feel free to correct me.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I've advocated for a different term for those okay with dating trans people, because that has never been the definition of bisexual and TRAs trying to force it to mean something that includes them automatically excludes actual bisexual people who know what the word means and use it correctly, and for whom it is a relevant term about their lives and identities (so radically changing it, as TRAs keep trying to do, is just plain harmful). I won't budge on this. So yeah, they need a different term, and I don't care what it is, as long as it isn't co-opting an existing term that already means something else.

Otherwise we keep getting looked at as some sort of all-access venue for pursuit (or bullying or coercion) by people who have changed themselves in ways that make them fundamentally not fit what the term means anymore. That is not our problem, and our term(s) have as much importance as "lesbian" and "gay man" do for those groups. We shouldn't have to defend or explain this. (My ire is not directed at you, of course. I'm just tired of this lazy, bisexual-erasure, they're-attracted-to-everybody nonsense.)

[–]nosympathy 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

because that has never been the definition of bisexual

the definition of bisexual is a person attracted to both males and females. everyone in the world, including trans people, are either male or female.

bisexual-erasure

you're the one seemingly ok with bisexual erasure as long as the target is a bisexual person you don't like or relate to.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You should re-read your arguments above and find their flaws before proceeding. Projection and hand-wavy blurring of distinctions won't work here.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

(My ire is not directed at you, of course. I'm just tired of this lazy, bisexual-erasure, they're-attracted-to-everybody nonsense.)

All good, thank you for explaining your thoughts! I guess there needs to be some sort of distinction between, "people who are attracted to both sexes could be attracted to trans-identified people" vs. "all people who are attracted to both sexes are into trans-identified people." I do think there is real harm in suggesting that transgender people are "bisexual people's problem" as the phrasing of some users here might imply (intentionally or unintentionally). But I also think it's important to have a universally-agreed-upon term for people who are attracted to both sexes, and in most contexts (not TQ+ ones, and maybe not some bisexual communities?) that term tends to be "bisexual".

For me I guess, the way I think of it is, I might not be into a woman (female person, to be crystal clear) who has gone through a lot of transgender medicalization, but I wouldn't try to find a different word to describe lesbian women who are fine with that vs. those who don't. I am not really up to speed on the popularity of terms like bisexual vs. pansexual, though, perhaps bi people in general might think differently. I think u/PeakingPeachEater may have done an in-depth discussion post about this topic a while back, if you haven't seen it already.

[–]Lizzythelezzo 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have met people who would be okay with mismatched parts sexually, but just choose not to date trans people due to the mental illness and dissociative issues.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's totally fine, and they can use a term that isn't already taken to mean something else. The amount of confusion and abuse and erasure generated by misusing the term "bisexual" is unacceptable.

[–]censorshipment 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah but the most likely sexuality of a person fucking these freaks is bisexual. Do straight women and gay men fuck "trans women"? Sure. Do straight men and gay women fuck "trans men"? Sure. But who is fucking both? Bisexual men and women (who are likely the most vocal TRAs). 🤷

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Most of what you are saying above is conjecture that seems geared toward defending the incessant misuse of the term "bisexual," and doesn't respect what I am saying about misusing the term, either.

I don't misuse "lesbian" to include attraction to trans women. I merely expect the same respect in return.

And there seem to be plenty of ignorant, self-absorbed people mistakenly (or mendaciously) calling themselves bisexual who don't mean what the term means, either. They cannot be invoked here to make your point, as they are also misusing the term.

[–]throwaway999 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't misuse "lesbian" to include attraction to trans women. I merely expect the same respect in return.

You're being intellectually dishonest. The users here aren't calling people who are interested in women and "trans men" bisexual, it's people who are interested in both males and females. Trans status is not relevant to the definition of "bisexual". If a person is interested in both males and females, they are bisexual, regardless of the trans status of those people.

You are the one who is misusing the term. It means attraction to both males and females. I'll give you an example: if a guy likes women and "trans women" he is bisexual because he likes females (women) and males (trans women). I can go over the rest of the possible combinations, but I think you get what I'm saying. Attraction to both males and females is all that's relevant.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And you entirely miss that what you are doing is rewriting the definition of bisexual to include trans people. This is the same as rewriting the definition of "lesbian" to include trans people.

You are quite aware of the intent and the spirit of the definition of bisexual as it has been used for decades by bisexual people, I am sure. So trying to rewrite it now in a disingenuous way doesn't give you credibility. Incidentally you also have a habit of putting words in other people's mouths. I've never thought of trans people as "degenerate." But nice try.

If you can't stick to an honest argument, you are not in a position to call anyone else dishonest, friend.

[–]throwaway999 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You really think that "attraction to males and females" is a "rewritten" definition of bisexuality? Is "female homosexual" a "rewritten" definition of "lesbian" as well because it's exactly the same as the definition of "bisexual" in that it only describes the sexes one is attracted to, the only difference being that the definition of "lesbian" also includes the sex of the subject of the orientation.

What exactly is the "original" definition of bisexuality then?

And it seems you're getting confused between attraction to trans people and actually being trans. I never said that you thought trans people are degenerate, but I'm assuming that you consider bisexuals who are attracted to trans people to be fetishists, and that's where I added my own label "degenerate" to describe them.

My argument is honest. Bisexual = attraction to males and females. What's your argument? "No, I don't like that and it makes us look bad; I want to specifically exclude bisexuals who are attracted to trans people."

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bisexual with femininity fetish.

[–]millionssomething 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yuck! I dated a guy who told me that he would prefer me (a biological woman) if I had a penis.

Thinking back, he was most definitely a closeted bisexual man.