Indoctrination / DoublethinkShame shame shame on all of us, love from /r/tttt

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[–][deleted] 32 insightful - 1 fun32 insightful - 0 fun33 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Being gay was thought to be bad, and we are proving that it is not. Being gay was thought to be "satanic" and "weird" and "wrong". We are showing that, that is wrong. Why is being trans any different?

Probably because the trans community is saying that being gay is wrong and transphobic.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Also because of the relentless efforts to change language. The only word that LGB ever attempted to redefine was "marriage", and even then the change didn't impose any cognitive burden. In cases where it did compel speech/action (hint, bake-me-a-cake-bitch) some of us were very opposed to that.

Also, the relentless effort to trans children. LGB made it pretty clear that MAPs weren't welcome.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We didn't even change the definition of "marriage". It was never explicitly defined as heterosexual and the word was used to mean a joining of anything,not just people.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We kind of just wanted to be added, not really change the def.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, yes, but some people perceived it as a change. Regardless, it didn't demand anything of anybody else.

[–]fuck_reddit 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe nobody likes you because you’re trying to “educate” gay people about homosexuality. They are so narcissistic they can’t see how condescending and vile they are to other people.

[–]SerpensInferna 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can’t go on to gay men’s subreddits without getting some sort of transphobia. Sometimes I have the energy to reach out and be open to help educate. But more and more I’m just tired.

Goodness knows we need to continue to remain completely unwelcoming and exhausting to those who don't belong in our spaces.

Unfortunately for us lezzies, gay men do have the advantage here. Transmen are much more sensitive to rejection, and except for those afflicted with severe personality disorders, are likely to eventually stop harassing men when they are turned away over and over again. Transwomen often seem to have a humiliation fetish and in my experience completely get off on the discomfort they cause women in their own spaces, it's totally part of the thrill.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wahhhhhh waaaaaahhh waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. How these people sound 24/7. A movement for adults with the emotional maturity of babies. 🙄

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans movement is more like the narcissist movement but made socially acceptable.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

They always blame others, don't they?

I once met a trans woman with the conviction women backed away when he (before transitioning) came close because they were scared of men. It never occurred to that person that it was perhaps because of their shit personality. Or horrible breath. Or the incredible need to be the center of attention EVERY SINGLE TIME. Back in those days, it was possible to go against them en say 'Eh, no. Most women don't walk around being frightened of every goddamn dude they see. It was probably something else.' Now? Not so much and I'm basically obliged to tell them how fucking valid and sexy they are while screaming in my face.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"Bland straight." (Your flair.) That sounds refreshing.

Now? Not so much and I'm basically obliged to tell them how fucking valid and sexy they are

I am guessing that this was more rhetorical than a recurring practical issue, but for anyone for whom it is, here's one approach: Practice looking at your phone / watch / randomly remembering you have somewhere (else) to be for the next time this is actually a thing that's happening. Make your exit with a smile and a friendly wave. It's not negative but still sends the "no thank you" message, i.e. you won't be a good person to go to for that next validation fix, but it's also pretty much impossible to see you as Bad™.

It's a form of boundary enforcement.

[–]MoutonelectriqueBland Straight ♀ 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think/hope I'm the opposite of spicy straight and wanted a bit of fun in my flair, so yeah: bland straight.

It was online so indeed more rhetorical, but your advice is solid for IRL situation. Thank you!

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're welcome, and welcome to our little bubble of sanity!

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

We need to support everyone.

Except for homosexuals who don't want to date the opposite sex I guess.

Being gay was thought to be "satanic" and "weird" and "wrong". We are showing that, that is wrong. Why is being trans any different?

Well being trans can cost a lot of money, being gay is free. $$$ for Big Pharma is one primary difference.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Well being trans can cost a lot of money

Not if you're this guy.

Can't call that a beard anymore if you're LARPing as a woman. Now you have hirsutism.

[–]artetolife 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

tl;dr: "You achieved acceptance, now it's your job to do the same for us!"

I was thinking of writing a whole detailed post on why that's never going to happen, but basically even if it was our job and we wanted to do it, the whole history of lgb acceptance is antithetical to the current transgender movement. They don't actually want what we have, they just think they do because they are stupid.

[–]chandra 11 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

And that's why I'm just queer. Everyone's included. No ifs, ands, or buts. If you're queer? You're queer.

Well that is certainly very helpful for those who are trying to find communities of people who are like themselves.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, it kind of is, right? If you're one to call yourself "queer," you know for a fact you'll fit right in alongside all of the other insufferable people that call themselves "queer."

The real trick is trying to find other actually gay people to hang out with if you want to.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is what happens when:

(A) you make your gender or sexuality the entirety of your being, and

(B) you enter places that you aren't welcome.

LGB is fundamentally a different thing from every other letter that comes after it. Like, that fucking picture... "There's no LGB without the T"... that doesn't even make sense. There's not LGBTQ+ without the TQ+, that's for sure, but LGB doesn't have a fucking T in it. Stop trying to force yourself into places and groups where you don't belong.

Also, get a fucking hobby, and by extension, a life. I'm not constantly exhausted by having to explain and defend my inclusion in a group that doesn't want me because I don't give two shits about identity politics. I'm a gay man, and that's probably the least interesting thing about me. I'm also a writer, I also crochet, I also hike, I also play music, and I can join groups of other writers, crocheters, etc. and find people that I can get along with that won't abuse me because, as a [whatever], I belong in that group. (Now, whether those groups themselves fall victim to identity politics is another story, but when your hobby is identity politics, you have literally no choice but to deal with identity politics.)

Why is this so fucking hard? It's absolutely infuriating to me to see people just be so dumb and unaware.

[–]Horror-SwordfishI don't get how flairs work 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Damn, reading more of these comments, it's clear that all of these people are just narcissistic idiots. The more you go on, the more it's like, "YEAH AND HOW ABOUT THE BI PEOPLE THAT AREN'T RECOGNIZED BY THE L AND G" then "YEAH BUT WHAT ABOUT THE NB PEOPLE THAT AREN'T FEELING INCLUDED BY THE T" then "YEAH AND WE ALSO NEED TO RECOGNIZE THE ASEXUALS" then "YEAH AND I'M SO TIRED OF GETTING TOLD I DON'T BELONG IN LGB GROUPS, I'M A DEMISEXUAL AGENDER CATGIRL SO I TOTALLY BELONG, EVERYONE BELONGS"

Why you guys wanna be LGB so damn bad? It's not literally sunshine and rainbows all the time.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Forced teaming.

They are rejected for other reasons than we LGB have been, and conflate the two because we had some success in overcoming it and that's what they focus on, not the reasons for our success. We wouldn't have gotten anywhere if we had dumpster-fire personalities and serious mental health problems. But since they can't look at themselves they don't see their actual issues.

Frankly I think it's envy. We are a group that could make a credible case for acceptance without resorting to gaslighting or manipulation. There's no narcissist alive who doesn't want the nice things that other people have, and they seldom understand that the reason they have little success in attaining those things is they are assholes, lying to themselves, etc.

Narcissists are always (ALWAYS) trying to gain power for themselves by making the biggest, fanciest arguments for their specialness that they can make, and to do that, they often have to (mis)appropriate what belongs to others and claim it as their own. It's all utilitarian, a means to the end of more power and attention. "That worked for you, so I'll take that for me and use it to get what I want." They see the outward accoutrements like e.g. a flag, an organization—the symbols. They don't have the insight to recognize that what counts is that the symbols mean something in practice. They do not mean anything in isolation. It's mindless grasping.

[–]reluctant_commenter 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I love the sound of that. LGB Community. :)

Being gay was thought to be bad, and we are proving that it is not. Being gay was thought to be "satanic" and "weird" and "wrong". We are showing that, that is wrong.

No you aren't, you keeping calling LGB "queer." That literally means weird in a negative way, off-putting, strange, unusual. Walk the talk. Or we leave.

edit: Shameless plug for s/LGBmemes... let's build our LGB communities!

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Talk about gaslighting yourself and flipping the script. "People might respond negatively to people who abuse them, and how dare they." Absolutely unwilling to look at themselves.

[–]Hannibalboy93 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

This is exactly what we want please do it, exlude us and let us make our own spaces that is what are all asking.

"I think it's high time we begin ostracizing bigots within the community. Unpopular doesn't begin to describe my opinion, but there's literally no fucking point to have transphobic and biphobic people representing us. Just because you're lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender or anything in the + does NOT make you a part of the community. If you are going to hurt the movement, then you can sit on the sidelines, because you damn well don't deserve to be a part of it."