all 17 comments

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But if anyone can use a label for whatever they want, then labels are 100% useless and worthless. If anyone can call themselves a lesbian without repercussion, then that label has failed. Gatekeeping isn't an inherently bad thing, it's a tool to prevent a mess from happening. It can be bad, like when someone says you're a "fake" fan for having not read the books/seen the original series/hated the new media because the new publisher is bad, but gatekeeping is necessary in other situations, like keeping people from watching a movie at the theater without paying or saying that men and straight women can't be lesbains.

[–]julesburm1891 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Labels should serve us, not become a new cage we confine ourselves into while pushing away our comrades.

The label lesbian serves me by plainly describing my sexual orientation to the world. Clearly defining my sexual boundaries doesn’t confine me unless you think having sexual boundaries is confining.

Citation needed for the claim that trans people are LGB people’s comrades. (Also, using the language of a regime that criminalized homosexuality and sent many LGB people to prison camps isn’t exactly a great way to say you’ve got our best interests at heart.)

A label should be a cane, not a ball and chain.

Repetitive. Please revise.

If you think annunciating sexual boundaries is a “ball and chain” that says a lot more about you than it does me. Neither myself nor any other lesbian is sitting around thinking “it’d be great to ride some dick, but I can’t because I use the lesbian label.” We don’t feel confined by a label because it describes the full spectrum of what we honestly desire. I hear therapy is good for working through unresolved issues with yourself and know some people if you need help.

Do not presume that others who use the same label as you differently than you do are applying their label to you.

If I call myself a transwoman and say it means a biological female with an avid interest in re-enacting the lifestyles of the Transalpine Gauls, this would be perfectly fine, correct? After all, you couldn’t assume I’m using a label the same way as others and it would be audacious to tell me how to define myself.

Words have always been allowed to have many meanings. That’s language.

Sure, a cat can mean any feline creature or a cool guy in 1956. That doesn’t mean pointing at a Komodo dragon and calling it cat will make it cat though. (If you think it would, please try petting it.)

Sometimes words can have different usages. Most often, these differences are merely slang. Calling something by a different name won’t change what it actually is.

”Words mean things and you’re watering down what it means to be [insert identity]” isn’t an argument

How should people clearly state anything then? This is like mixing all the soda pops at the Subway drink machine and then trying to figure out how to just have Sprite.

I presume most of us know what thesauruses and dictionaries are for, yes?

Genuinely curious—if words can mean whatever any individual wants, how would dictionaries and thesauruses be formatted and printed? If I decide “atrocious” means “that pleasant feeling of sleeping in on a Sunday morning,” how would the OED go about including that along with everyone else’s take on “atrocious?”

Respectability politics won’t save us.

Correct. But it will save LGB people. It’s what we have to thank for nearly all of our progress. I do see how relying on a narrative of commonality might be difficult for a community that relies on lying, delusion, bullying, and sexist stereotypes to persist. Best of luck with that.

The rest of your community isn’t the problem, the problem is societal expectations placed on all of us

Teensy problem here. The societal expectation is that people ought to be straight. What you’re demanding is LGB people magically make ourselves straight. You are the problem, unfortunately.

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

His post contains a lot of abuser messaging.

If lesbians asserts that lesbians aren't attracted to men: we are oppressing ourselves.

Lesbians demanding not to be erased and establishing boundaries: makes us oppressors, and we are harming all marginalized people.

So basically: lesbians are not allowed to protect ourselves. We cannot talk about our own sexual orientation. We cannot make decisions for ourselves.

[–]julesburm1891 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For sure. He’s talking out both sides of his mouth and pretending it’s about everyone being free when it’s really about nobody but him having choice.

I don’t see how so many people don’t see it for what it is though. Imagine someone asked me to drink kombucha, I declined, and they responded I was being untrue to myself because I secretly must like kombucha. Then I told them I really hate the beverage and the retort was that I was hurting kombucha producers. Everyone would rightly see that as abso-fucking-lutely nuts. But people can’t see it when trans gets slapped on the same argument.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is so dumb. Labels don't constrain anyone. They're just descriptors. You either fit the definition or you don't. The word lesbian doesn't constrain anyone, it's a description of a type of woman. If you fit that description you're a lesbian, whether you like it or not, and if you don't then you aren't no matter what you do.

I'm still at a loss for why people want to claim being something that they clearly aren't.

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, that's the thing that's so annoying about these people. If you feel like a label is too constraining, it's probably because you're not using a label that accurately describes yourself. Instead of redefining words into meaninglessness, they should find the label that actually fits them. Quit trying to force a square peg into a round hole my guys.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, exactly. If you feel constrained by a label it's because that label doesn't actually describe you.

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't get it either. It's like the situation of there being so many bi women that are open about their male attraction but will fight you tooth and nail to call themselves "lesbians," even if they have a husband/boyfriend, or want to have one. Calling themselves "lesbians" would just make everything more difficult for them but they still just want the word for some reason. But they'll also complain about bisexual erasure lol. I guess it's just selfishness pure and simple. They don't care about actual lesbians, but they want to change definitions, alter history, and make actual lesbians be quiet about it. Because their feelings and comfortability is more important. Same thing with transbians. The queer movement is just selfishness.

But don't for a second say pansexual is the same as bisexual!!!

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe, just maybe, if you get mad at homosexual women for defending're the problem?

[–]MyLongestJourney 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those pesky lesbians,oppressing dick owners forever,by refusing to have sex with them!

[–]hufflepuff-poet 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

These idiots have completely butchered any sort of class consciousness. They use the language of the oppressed to silence and obstruct radical change while being oppressors or enablers themselves. Useful idiots, grifters and abusers--that is who runs the trans rites movement.

Lamest religion of the century. 😒

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Calling it a religion would imply that it has some sort of structure.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

How about "cult"?

[–]jay-dayGold Star Gay Woman[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Scientology still has an agreed upon structured worldview lol. Queers are just, idk, they don't want to have any meaning or structure, because that wouldn't make them special anymore. It's why there is so many cancelling in their community, they have no agreed upon language, meaning, or anything. If words have no meaning, then they cannot communicate information clearly. They are essentially having several different conversations with each other. They don't talk to each other, they talk past each other.

So paradoxically: they thought this would make everyone more accepting and equal, but now everything and anything is and can be hateful and problematic. Just like anything and everything is or can be valid. It's all on equal footing. Everything is/can be someone's identity, and everything is/can be problematic. Everything is valid, everything is problematic.

Look at gender. Gender has no real meaning in the queer community. It can be clothes, pronouns, or hair. So because there is no meaning a queer that views gender as performative is being bigoted to a large portion of queers that views it as psychological, but the offended's view of gender could also be problematic. Since there is no meaning everything is equally as hateful and problematic as a cis-hets bigotry. Then cancelling starts. Then it devolves into them agreeing everyone is valid, and it'll start all over again. Everyone gets more paranoid. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

[–]lunarstrain 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Since there is no meaning everything is equally as hateful and problematic as a cis-hets bigotry. Then cancelling starts. Then it devolves into them agreeing everyone is valid, and it'll start all over again. Everyone gets more paranoid.

Giving me war flashbacks to my teenage years as a Tumblrina, painfully accurate.

[–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)


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[–]LesbianManiactransphobic lol 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think they forgot that labels are meant to describe something instead of just being there to make you cool.