A study concluding that women who are mentored by men tend to be more successful had to be retracted because you can't say that!

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[–]jet199 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

This certainly fits with my experience.

All the male bosses I've had through I was an underachieving genius while other women easily see through my shit.

[–]hennaojichan 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

It fits mine too. Ask any group of say college women if they would prefer a male or female boss and you will probably get around 90% answering "male." Don't ask me why but jet's answer sounds about right.

[–]jet199 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

I think when you compare young women to young men in general competence there's always a clear winner. We wash for a start. Male bosses see that because they've been that smelly, obsessive geek themselves, female bosses have enough distance that they think they can mother it out of the guys but that's actually the worst approach. When older men deal with younger men it's tough love all the way.

[–]Akali 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

In which kind of wasteland do you live in where young men who work don't wash nor groom themselves? Clearly we don't live in the same planet because on my planet, young men are highly professional and they groom themselves and they often wear more appropriate clothing then young girl simply because men follow a more strick clothing code than women do. Do you live on mars or something?

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Ooh, touchy. Struck a nerve there.

Funny how men love laughing about broad stereotypes until the laugh's on them.

The whole reason men wear a stricter dress code at work is because their bosses don't trust them to be able to dress themselves without a guide book. My friend is high up in IBM but when he got poached to there in his early twenties the dress code was wear whatever you like but no trainers so he used to go in on his pajamas and smart leather shoes.

[–]slushpilot 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

IBM ... pajamas and smart leather shoes

Classic hacker move. Don't think he wasn't smart enough to know what he was doing!

Dress code is also to level the playing field and focus on the job. People want to be noticed at work, so some reasonable limits are understandable of course.

[–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We all know that geek who always stands too close and whose breath smells like zebra excrement.

[–]ReeferMadness 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (27 children)

I'm sure it goes double for men who get mentored by men vs women. I'm sure there are a few truly competent women in positions of authority to act as mentors, but the majority of them are there because of intersectionality. Not only are they less competent, they never had to overcome the obstacles that their proteges need help overcoming because those were removed for them.

[–]jet199 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (17 children)

Not where I work. The women are usually smarter and work harder. This isn't the 1950s, woman have to work to survive and usually make up 50% of the workforce, more in some areas of my industry.

The trouble is they can be right arseholes (hashtag notallwomen) because they want to make friends at work so when there's a fall out over work stuff it then is taken as a personal slight. My sister actually got banned from one studios films not because she did anything wrong but because the woman running it wanted to mother all her team and my sister (an ex banker) couldn't work that way and told her. Simply telling her was enough to bring on a whole "you'll never work again in this town" style tantrum.

[–]RatherSmallPotato 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

Working harder and being smarter are opposites lol

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Depends if you want to make money and have options or not. You can coast along your whole life in an easy job and someone else's spareroom if you like but that life is not for everyone.

[–]RatherSmallPotato 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

I disagree. The higher up you are the less you do. Your responsibilities change and you become responsible for the performance of others. If you play them right they are ones who work hard, you can go for a swim just before lunch. If you play them extra well, you can pick a fall guy to take the blame instead of you, and anything good that happens is because of you. Never be the bearer of bad news.

Source: HS dropout that managed engineers and used to go swimming right before lunch.

I quit because they wouldn't change my title to C-level, which it effectively was, so fuck them.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

This only works in the corporate world, again not everyone's choice. If you want to run your own business, thereby have control over your own destiny, the more work you put in the more results you see.

[–]RatherSmallPotato 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Depending on who you sell to. If you're B2B, you might be selling to a corporation that won't bother paying because they know you can't afford to take them to court. Add these up to the other 3 customers you have that only pay after 60 days and you're bankrupt after doing work and before starting to get any revenue whatsoever.

[–]whistlepig 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Thats why you get deposits or don't let them get too far in front of their payments.. at any rate, I don't see how any of that has anything to with whether a person is female or male. That is a common issue that all businesses deal with.

[–]RatherSmallPotato 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The conversation evolved past the title. And yeah, you do that and they simply don't choose you as a vendor.

[–]whistlepig 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If they don't pay you then you don't want them to have you as a vendor.

[–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I quit because they wouldn't change my title to C-level

Sound like they realized you were a terrible manager and were pushing you out. Maybe you aren't as clever as you think.

[–]RatherSmallPotato 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Long story, but you're wrong. Were I cleverer, I wouldn't have started.

[–]slushpilot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why not both.

[–]hfxB0oyA 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Far from the popular propaganda of the moment, men aren't the enemies of women anywhere near as often as women are the enemies of other women. A female will visciously go after another one for a perceived slight while a guy will either shrug it off or just not notice it.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Oh, men are definitely the worst for Game of Thrones style backstabbing for very minor wins in the office but they usually do it with a clear goal/gain in mind.

[–]whistlepig 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

some do... but not enough I think to generalize about..

I'm not making any generalizations about females either...

Some people are emotional... some are pretty good at keeping that separate.

[–]luster 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

the woman running it wanted to mother all her team

I think a lot of the woke nonsense we deal with is the result of unfulfilled motherly instincts being misdirected at adults.

[–]whistlepig 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

and childish instincts as well. ie.. the interest in being cared for by mommy or daddy government.

[–]hfxB0oyA 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Ehn, I disagree. I've worked with a number of females who have mentored me, both as colleagues and in roles senior to mine, and they've given me excellent guidance. I've never been under the impression that they were put in their positions to fulfill quotas.

[–]C3P0 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Filling quotas and "token females" seems like a slightly different topic than the title.

My experience is similar to /u/jet199's:

When older men deal with younger men it's tough love all the way.

Male professors also seem to give females more favorable grades--oops, you can't say that.

[–]hfxB0oyA 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Oh My God!!! Where's the cancel button on this thing...??

[–]christnmusicreleases[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Also that principle often applies to visible minorities of various flavors.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]madcow-5 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    Being made partner at a law firm isn’t the only position in law. People make a lot of money at every level up to that. Partner is like a cliche goal from movies. I know attorneys who work as paralegals because it’s easier and they still make six figures.

    Also, women are handed jobs where they don’t pull their weight in tech all the time. If they so much as know basic html, companies will trip over themselves to hire them just to say they’re there.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]madcow-5 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I've heard of women struggling to get hired in that field because of described misogynistic

      It's a lie. Problem is the fields full of nerds who can be pushed around. Companies trip over themselves to hire underqualified women, they just typically have no interest in tech. Most people don't tbh. The work is mentally strenuous and asocial. There's a reason nerds / awkward people thrive in it.

      [–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Perhaps in some fluffy roles

      Quite the opposite. It's the prestigious jobs that are targeted for "Diversity". I can see how law offices would be largely immune to this because of how they are structured, but you would be a fool to think that transfers to public defenders, prosecutors or any apprentice position. Intersectionality most definitely has left its mark on engineering and medicine.

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

      [deleted]

        [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

        i think men do mentor young women but only in hopes of getting in their pants.

        Women might mentor other women but only if they are a lesbian or bi and that is just a lower %.

        Yes this probably sounds sexist and immoral but everythng, for men and women both, really is about sex.

        [–]whistlepig 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        This is definitely a thing. I'm as guy and I've definitely taken advantage of the attraction element with past female bosses and current clients. Not that I think that females are easier... just different. I have the same luck with males, but unless they're gay I'm sometimes utilizing different social techniques.

        [–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Men are currently more influential and powerful than women in the fields examined in the study.

        In order for this to make a difference the mentor would have to use that influence to open doors. That is not something you can just claim is happening. Not only have you made the broad and unsubstantiated claim of power, and made the false insinuation that if men as a whole have more power then the individual men in this study must have power; but also are making the unsubstantiated claim that it was used to distort the findings.

        It is extremely unlikely that this study has some flaw simply because you invented it. You didn't cite the paper and show that this flaw is there, you just pulled it out of thin air.

        [–]Trajan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        True for most of the fields, but not medicine and psychology. That said, I’d like to actually read the study to see if they controlled for this. It’s a good question.

        [–]christnmusicreleases[S] 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

        The authors — which studied the disciplines of biology, chemistry, computer science, economics, engineering, geology, materials science, medicine, physics, and psychology — wrote that their study "suggests that female protégés who remain in academia reap more benefits when mentored by males rather than equally-impactful females."

        [–]Tom_Bombadil 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

        The authors — which studied the disciplines of biology, chemistry, computer science, economics, engineering, geology, materials science, medicine, physics, and psychology

        I'm relieved to see blacksmithing wasn't on this list.

        The female forgemaster that I studied under was brilliant, and tough as nails.

        [–]hfxB0oyA 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        Which was beneficial, as she also made nails.

        [–]ArcturianDeathTrap 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

        Women can't stand that there are no women on the internet https://pic8.co/sh/ysLV2V.png

        [–][deleted]  (5 children)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

          they don't have any actual thoughts, just run on instinct

          [–]jet199 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          Go buy someone's bath water.

          [–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          We need more stricter thot patrol

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          yup

          [–]ReeferMadness 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Before pictures the internet was mostly an intellectual pursuit. Not only most women, but most people were not interested in the internet. It was not worth the trouble to learn, the cost to get connected, and the time to find valuable content. And that equation is 100% dependent on how valuable you hold the available content.

          99.99% of internet usage is non intellectual. Porn, movies, music, social interaction substitutes, and gaming. The only popular "science" content is factoid based, flashy entertainment.

          It just so happens that even today that .001% of people consuming data are all the same group of men who were consuming it back when that was all you could get. It's the available content that changed.

          But just because that tiny group of people are almost all men that doesn't make it a gender specific quality. Most men are like that too. Nearly all kids are like that.

          [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

          Ask almost any woman working in a predominantly female office environment and she'll tell you it's a snake pit. The same applies for women sharing house together. There are lots of share houses either mixed or male only but I have never seen one female only. Two perhaps, two friends, but get more than that and you have a shitfight on your hands. I think it's simply genetic, the nesting drive or something.

          [–]madcow-5 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          Women express their aggression by attacking each other’s social ties, and they do this passively with rumors, gossip, general shit talking behind each other’s back.

          They’re every bit as aggressive as men, maybe more, it’s just not physically violent or confrontational the way men are.

          [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          many women, or most, I have had mostly girl friends of another breed, they are the type that prefer the company of men and have no girlfriends. They become 100% for you right off the bat. They are out there and are worth looking for.

          [–]VirgilGriff 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Giving women the right to vote was a mistake

          [–]RatherSmallPotato 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Help a brother out with a DOI/PMID.

          [–]zephyranthes 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          How much of it is explained by disparate sample sizes? I don't want to end up with egg on my face because the sampling was garbage.

          Has the not-Bee always had this celebrity gossip style? They need to have their drinking water tested, the side effect may go farther than just frogs.

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          there's a crazy thing called reading it to find out

          [–]hfxB0oyA 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          • Peer reviewed scientific paper with a study size of 3 Million comes to the conclusion that being mentored under a woman will harm your chances of succeeding in a scientific career compared to mentoring under a man.

          • Woman proceeds to raise a stink over the article and get it banned, even though everyone stands by the science of both the research and the conclusions.

          I think we have enough evidence supporting the research now.

          [–]slushpilot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          How many women needed to fight hard to get to where they could become a mentor, and yet still feel that their position is tenuous or threatened—with a touch of impostor syndrome perhaps.

          It's obvious you'd be a worse mentor if you feel the people you're mentoring could be a threat to your own position.