all 40 comments

[–]BISH 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (14 children)

Or, maybe many gods exist, and they have had different names, and a broad spectrum of power and influence.

The bible admits the existence of other gods in the first commandment.

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.

I serve the God of freedom, and free will.
The most high.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

Half of the ten commandments are petty, jealous, narcissistic, infantile rules.

I'd rather believe in Hanuman, a blue monkey-humanoid god.

[–]BISH 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Cool. Very different than what I was thinking.

[–]BISH 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

It's easy to favor god Hanuman on his good days.

But that's not what we're debating.

Woe to the followers of Hanuman when he gets his monkey-ox gored. It isn't pleasant.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Worse is when Hanuman gets an especially bad case of the monkey pox - and won't explain how he got it.

[–]BISH 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Worse is when Hanuman gets an especially bad case of the monkey pox - and won't explain how he got it.

DAAAAMN!!! Did Hanuman get the jab?

I'm sorry to hear that. That's really bad news... Is he telling his followers to get jabbed?

Does a monkey god have one of those beast marks?

If the monkey god had lost his way, then maybe consider the free will God.

He is not down with the jabs.
He says you have a choice, but he makes you live with the choices you've made.

But... You always have a choice if you want to turn things around. He's cool like that.

The God of self-empowerment.

[–]BISH 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Half of the ten commandments are petty, jealous, narcissistic, infantile rules.

God has a long list of legitimate reasons to be disappointed in the behavior of people, and the abuse of free will.

Even the best of us can run out of patience.

When God runs out of patience, it's a huge deal, and people never stop taking about it.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

IFIFY:

People have a long list of legitimate reasons to be disappointed in the lack of action from God, and the abuses of blind faith.

Even the best of us can run out of patience.

When people run out of patience, it's a huge deal, and Trudeau never stops taking about it.

[–]BISH 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

IFIFY: People have a long list of legitimate reasons to be disappointed in the lack of action from God

Maybe.
But you're moving the debate goal posts.

Are you arguing against the existence of God, as described in the meme, or disagreeing with the pre determined free-will commandment contact?

and the abuses of "blind faith"

Sure. An unavoidable consequence of free will.

When people run out of patience, it's a huge deal, and Trudeau CASTRO (AKA Turdo) never stops taking about it.

Turdo-Castro is a degenerate homunculus; the anal prolapse of Canada.

I agree that Turdo will have to answer to the Canadian people; and then God will smite this prolapse.


Bro. You may recall that I had agreed with your position at one time. I demanded evidence to support every logical conclusion in life.

However, there are things in life that are self-evident, which cannot be proven. Seemingly a contraction.

Can you prove you love your family?
Do you have evidence for your overarching care for humanity?

You have to come to terms with these things on your own. It's your choice.

The God of free will is cool like that. ;-)

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

I'm not moving the debate goal posts. I fixed your statement.

A lack of action from a God is pretty good evidence there isn't even one there to be active.

What the fuck is "free-will" when you're under coercive threat of eternal damnation to Hell or the nonsensical reward of Heaven? Authentic free-will doesn't require the ultimate carrot or stick to be in the equation. Religion is unnecessary superfluous nonsense.

Turdo-Castro is a degenerate homunculus; the anal prolapse of Canada.

I see that you're being far too restrained and polite to really describe him with the savage accuracy that he really deserves.

I don't need a God to have the free-will I already express, and I don't need to prove or disprove God to anyone when it's obvious that God is just an extra layer authoritarians want to add over our already wondrous existence in this Universe.

[–]BISH 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Have you noticed that most of the unjabbed are religious?

Does this strike you as a coincidence?

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Not in my experience. Seems 50/50 to me.

[–]BISH 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

50/50 is very significant, as the percentage of religious people has nosedived in recent decades.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Sure. What I find problematic is these religious folks still believe in "authority", even if it's a fictional sky myth. We need to completely flip the extant paradigm, not revolve it. Bottom-up is the ONLY way we can resist top-down tyranny - and too many are too afraid to try something new. Sure there will be issues and problems - just like with the old systems - except this would help everyone.

[–]IX-Hispana 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Bad argument really. You could say that to Lemaitre about the Big Bang as well: "there have been 3000 creation myths so far but only yours actually happened. The others are all nonsense, but not yours. Yours is real". Well, yes, actually!

If you want to talk about a topic, you've got to engage the topic itself on its own merits.

I don't understand why famous atheists go for these sorts of "clever" arguments. I guess they like to feel clever. The simpler argument is much better: "I don't believe because I have no reason to". Simple. But it doesn't stroke the ego as much.

[–]EternalSunset 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Bad analogy. The Big Bang isn't a creation myth, it is a scientific theory formulated to explain the CMB. Name 1 religion that is based on scientifically observed descriptions of reality and not some fantastical story some cult leader literally made up from whole cloth and actually got people to blindly believe in.

[–]IX-Hispana 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You're right that the big bang theory has particular characteristics that warrant individual consideration. That's my point! It makes no sense to say "every other explanation for the beginning of the universe is wrong, so yours must be wrong too". If you look into it, you might find there's something different about this one. But you have to look into it to find out.

Don't get caught up in the example. Another example could be a guy who's fat and can't believe you can get jacked without steroids: "there are thousands of guys out there who claimed they were natty and then got caught. But sure, you don't touch the stuff. You're special". The general argument can be applied to all kinds of situations.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I'll be first to admit there are issues with the Big Bang Theory. And the idea that we're a simulation. But they seem more plausible than adding layers of unneeded complications to an existence that is impossible for little humans to summarily understand with a creator, petty jealous narcissist, sketchy historical accounts, loving parent, and moral judge.

Just be. Explanations be damned.

[–]UncleWillard56 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The difference is that when new evidence is introduced and vetted, the narrative changes. Religion does not allow for that, nor does faith.

[–]Bonn1770 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Dude is funny but a real midwit when it comes to religion.

[–]UncleWillard56 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think he hit the nail on the head. Why is the Christian God any more valid than Odin? Ganesh? Zeus?

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe it's you that doesn't understand.

[–]zyxzevn 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I had the same discussion-point when I was a child. Loved talking with very religious people. And people have many different answers. And had very different interesting experiences.

Later I learned some people think that they are very special. For example sect-like groups think that god will only safe them. Because they belief in that special way. The Epstein group and the WEF think that they are chosen by god to abuse other people.

Currently I am more Buddhist minded. That means that everyone is a piece of god by him/herself. And everyone has their own path back to god. Even atheism is just a variant of that.

In Buddhism, a personalized god is usually seen as a distraction from the real god that encompasses everyone and everything. Some take it to the extreme and think that their personal life is not important too. But I noticed that the personal life does matter, a lot.

Often hard-core atheists were hardcore believers in other lives and vice-versa. The emotions and thinking-patterns usually stay, but with different variables like the environment. So your personal life en dealing with your personal problems helps you to grow in person.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Be careful. That's a collectivist system that leads to embracing loss of individual identity and tricks you into giving up autonomy. But you exist for a reason, or you'd be exactly like everyone else.

What you really need to be careful of is the whole matrix and reincarnation wheel thing, and the white light "heaven" trap. People have always been tricked and coerced into continuing on with it, and nowadays the new age toxic positivity movement is making people embrace it as sacred. Any questioning of it is met with extreme and sudden and unprecedented anger from most people, regardless of their beliefs, even if they're normally calm and open-minded. You can almost see the laser beams shooting out of their eyes, it's that intense. The New Testament actually warns against false angels of light, heaven, and the god of this world, which is who the ransom was paid to. Not the same one who was also paying it as preachers try to claim today.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That's a collectivist system that leads to embracing loss of individual identity and tricks you into giving up autonomy.

Wait, what? You're telling me Buddhism is a religion too? Great. Now what am I going to do with all these statues of fat heads?

Just don't tell me that my precious ConsumerCulture™ is another cult or I'll have to declare yet another war.

Why pay for today when you can put it off until tomorrow with interest?

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Sane people don't remember before they were born.
Yet many can't admit they won't know what happens after they're dead.
But... ' ~ . magic . ~ '

Yes. I like existential Taoist Zen /s/Buddhism if you strip away the religious aspects for the philosophical non-violent non-judgmental acceptance of Universal balance.

[–]zyxzevn 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I call it "Buddist" without "Buddha"..
It confuses the hell out of people.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Why do all religions need the cult of personality?

[–]zyxzevn 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Cult of personality?
I don't know what you mean exactly, but there may be a good example with how Hinduism is a religion with both invisible gods and living gods.
People walk around that actually think that they are god, with some just wanting attention. The gurus are seen as the representative of an invisible god in the world. I think that the old Egyptians had similar concepts.

Gurus and "gods"

These gurus speak as if they are above everyone else. And you can tell that they have big egos in a way, and are very insulting to people. The believers explain it by blaming themselves. If you are insulted, it is because you have too much ego. Or if you think the guru has an ego than you are seeing your own ego.
At the same time they speak about being in unity with god. In Hinduism there are many gods, so it is confusing, but they explain it by claiming that all gods are united as one. Each "god" behaves like a sect.

You can feel the differences between these sects. In feeling there is a lot of difference, like there is different feeling for a different place. The difference between the feeling of a forest, a field or a big city. This difference is also between these sects.

Astral spaces:

For me it feels like astral spaces. Astral spaces give you a certain feeling at a place or connected with a certain group. Sometimes it feels as if you enter a church or graveyard or where they use drugs.

You can find different astral spaces in each religion. When these astral spaces are strong I sometimes get puke reflexes.

Astral space is where spirits go to after they die, so most are not going to the light. And still they reincarnate from their soul into a different life, because incarnation is not bound to the person in life.

All those spirits together form a group. This strengthens the sect and makes the god seem more powerful. Around a "guru" there are usually many spirits pretending to be him. And people in the sect do get visions and voices from these spirits, thus making them believe more in the power of this guru.

Other religions have different systems, but all have some way of collecting spirits in astral spaces.

Scientism as a sect:

And even scientism is a sect in that way, very popular for spirits. It is popular, because it denies the existence of consciousness after death. And with that belief, the spirits can pretend that they are not dead. And they can hang around the living people, because they will just think that it is their own thoughts and feelings.

Certain evil spirits can just play with skeptical people, because these people think that the spirits are their own voices. Especially when these people are away from their own feelings (and soul), can they be manipulated in thoughts. These evil spirits can give them thoughts about hurting other people for an invented reason, and they will often just agree. That is why some in the skeptical (and technocrat) community are psychopaths.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

A cult of personality, or a cult of the leader, is the result of an effort which is made to create an idealized and heroic image of a leader by a government, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

Worshiping religious leaders, political leaders, movie stars, rock stars, etc. Fuck it all - narcissists and the culture of worship. I can appreciate a great painting and respect the talent of a great painter without putting the painter on a pedestal too.

Even more disturbing than these blind faiths are the cognitive dissonance that painfully occurs when they're trapped in their cult's circular logic. For example, call someone out on their $cienti$m and they may rage, ban you from their store, or even get violent, "justified" by their beliefs embedded by "legitimate authorities". I'm assuming that's what you mean by "evil spirits" - vague nebulous words I would never use because they're loaded with so much other contemporary nonsense.

[–]zyxzevn 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for explaining the cult of personality. And I think people follow the darkest (often narcissist) people.
Darkness has some kind of attraction, like drugs.

[–]FuckYourMom 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

If you think about what he said. It is extremely inflammatory.

Fuck Ricky Jarvis.

But not really.

Do you want to fuck my god?

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'll say fuck god all day long. Doesn't make it real.

[–]WoodyWoodPecker 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That is 3000 gods, lowercase g. They exist but are not the one true God uppercase G.

[–]eater_of_gods 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

There may many gods but there is just one reality.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The ideology/substance behind the word "god" and the concomitant physical behaviors/rituals/gatherings/celebrations have been within human culture for longer than written word. Gervais makes a JOKE and it contains good things for saidit to sigh/laugh and debate yet, Saiditors must maintain the fact within our minds. Mr. Gervais is simplifying a complex human psychic situation in JOKE form. The joke, more a statement of fact to my mind more than an attack on "god" or an attack on those believing in "god".

Within the study of memetics the word "god" is not a meme, yet contains memetic material energies by dictionary definition. Illuminating mental memetic substances which energetically occupies a grand amount of space within the human mind...for millennia.

What is it to Know there exists a "consciousness" bigger than you, the planet, solar system, your galaxy and the Universe? And what would you label it by word...God? Life is a pervasive force in our universe. We have no idea as a collective how pervasive this energy of genesis actually is.

All I humbly know, not one of the past nor any of the present so called Gods have improved my life in any way. As one commentator has already pointed out, many gods and only one total Reality we all share...and we do not share One Planet very well.

When is come to science's big bang...how do the scientists not know, it might be God sliding middle finger of thumb at speeds faster than light? The would be one big finger banging the Universe into existence?

...create a great day...

[–]iDontShift 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

hindus don't actually believe in many Gods, the native americans didn't actually worship animals

hindus believe God is all things, and in that God can be represented many ways. hence the 'gods' are seen as aspects, not God itself..

[–]JewsAreOfColor 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Does that apply to his belief in biological sex as well?

[–]Musky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

On board were the Twelve
The poet, the physician, the farmer, the scientist, the magician
And the other so-called Gods of our legends
Though Gods they were