DiscussionI think TRA's need to stop making it out as if trans people are the most oppressed people in the world and could get killed whenever they walk outside.

submitted by Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift. from self.LGBDropTheT

Short answer to the actual question 'are trans people at risk of being killed whenever they go outside'?: No. They are not and they need to stop acting like they are.

72: Number of countries where just being a homosexual/bisexual male is criminalised.

44: Number of countries where just being a homosexual/bisexual female is criminalised.

15: Number of countries where transitioning is illegal.

Yes, these are actual numbers. And TRA's have the audacity to say that transgender people are far more oppressed than anyone in that fucking alphabet club. I understand that genuine discrimination against their group exists, but them saying "oh i may get killed l i t e r a l l y whenever i go outside" is getting a bit boring and grating now. You know that isn't true. The majority will not give a fuck.

Also, controversial opinion here, but if transwomen and transmen are so indistinguishable from actual women and men... MAYBE DON'T ANNOUNCE THAT YOU ARE TRANS EVERY 5 MINUTES ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND IN REAL LIFE. Do they understand that they are quite frankly choosing to be 'oppressed'? All you have to do is not tell people you are trans, going by your own logic, anyway. Y'know? Similar to how I hide the fact that I am gay, because I would probably be verbally harassed if I announced such to the world?

I'm not saying you shouldn't be transgender, as that's blatantly discriminatory and unfair, but if you hate this 'oppression' you face on the regular so much, then why bother coming out as trans? Only 15 countries in the entire world deem your existence illegal, you are much more widely accepted than homo and bisexuals. Stop acting like someone is going to beat you to death for walking outside when you most likely live in a country that is completely fucking normal.

EDIT: Words.

EDIT 2: Source. https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lgbt-the-law/map-of-criminalisation/?type_filter=crim_sex_men

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[–]InLaymansterms 28 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Was just thinking about this. Transitioning is literally a choice, being trans is a choice. They can choose not to live in “oppression” but no they do it anyway and signal how holier they are because they decided to make this choice.

Meanwhile the gays are literally born that way and are just seeking to love another and have that love acknowledged.

[–]aftx 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"being trans is a choice" Well the transtrenders,yeah, but some actually have a medical condition.

[–][deleted] 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

A lot of the numbers and estimates are grossly inflated based on the high portion of MTF prostitutes. Violence among and against prostitutes has always been high, and higher still among "transgender" prostitutes. Including this outlier data among general populations makes it seem as though there's insane amounts of violence or death, when in reality it's a small subset of people in certain places. Specifically, male prostitutes masquerading as female prostitutes to get more business. Why it would surprise anybody that this act might result in violence is beyond me.

[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift.[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Hey, really sorry to ask, but do you have sources to the whole MTF prostitute thing? Would be nice to use against people who say "oh, not a single trans person is looking to deceive people! shut up!"

[–][deleted] 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

There will not be any discussing particulars of why they are attacked, no, that's just my conclusion. There are statistics on prostitution related violence being especially prevalent for trans. If you just want an overview of some related research and numbers, wikipedia has a pretty extensive intro: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_sex_worker

Of note is a very high number of trans people (MTF in particular) have been prostitutes. STD's are much higher for them, of course. Among these, I've never seen a single survey or study ask anyone "why" they are so much more physically attacked than other prostitutes. My guess is, because they trick people into thinking they're women, and certain lugs express displeasure with fists more than brains.

At best you'll get comments like "According to self-reported surveys from sex workers in the U.S. most unwanted sexual violence has come from clients. This violence may be motivated by perpetrators hatred or negative attitudes toward transgender people.[31]"

Want to bet "finding a dick where you expect a vagina" is what they classify as "hatred"?

[–]8bitgay 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I've never seen a single survey or study ask anyone "why" they are so much more physically attacked than other prostitutes. My guess is, because they trick people into thinking they're women, and certain lugs express displeasure with fists more than brains.

I really doubt it. Do you really believe poor MtF prostitutes are all out there passing super well and making straight men believe they're cis women?

From what I've heard, it's pretty much the opposite. I've seen many trans prostitutes saying that they'd make less money if they made the sex change surgery, because men want the dick. The few ads I've seen for MtF prostitutes always mentioned that they had big dicks and were versatile.

It seems way more likely for me that these "straight" men look for trans women fully aware that they are trans and have dicks. But then they don't want to pay and get violent, or they get afraid about their family finding out, etc. These are guys who are going to trans women as a way to vent their gay/bi desires, and when they confront themselves about it they often get violent, because it's easier to have a violent response than to deal with homophobia and face your desires. In this context, the violence these trans prostitutes face is not derived from transphobia, but from internalized homophobia.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Possible. We'll never know so long as people keep not asking when researching it. That's what annoys me the most. Researchers inserting their own ideas to interpret the data instead of doing more research to ASK about why it happens.

[–]8bitgay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just to be clear, I'm not American, and my country probably has more prostitution than in USA. Even within the same country different areas will have different experiences. The thing about ads for example, I've never actually seen ads for prostitution in my own city, but while traveling to another city I saw ads casually sticked to light poles and such. I've also seen many reports on news of MtF prostitutes telling similar stories about clients going for them for dick and then getting violent afterwards or refusing to pay. From watching the news videos it's pretty obvious that they wouldn't pass as cis women, even the most feminine ones have obvious voices.

Frankly I feel empathetic to these people, they get kicked out of home just for not conforming to gender rules and end up in prostitution. I don't think they get kicked out for being trans in specific, it's a result of homophobia from their families. In fact many of them don't even call themselves transgender.

I agree with you, there should be more data and more researches. Especially since the TRA people are using the stories of these trans prostitutes who have nothing in common with them.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't get me wrong, I think the situation is horrible. If you check the wikipedia summary, or read some of the cited papers or others on "transwoman" prostitution, these are heavily abused in many cases - from extremely homophobic homes - gay men. Often who start prostitution as early teenagers due to extreme violence or threats to their lives from family and others. One of the many, many, many, reasons I think we need both to legalize prostitution as well as greatly extend punishments on negligent and abusive parents. Assaults on your own children should be treated doubly, or triply, as severe as assaults on strangers. And our child care alternative with foster parents is a total fucking joke.

So you have young androgynous boy prostitutes who, in America at least, can keep that more youthful appearance and work in the only career they've ever had by taking hormones. As they do in many other countries. Here, and I don't know about your country, they certainly have been doing hormones and looking more feminine. The days of yore where your transvestite prostitutes were obviously masculine are caricatures from 1970s films. Of course it's going to probably depend on where you are even within the USA, it's a huge country, you'll see both kinds I've no doubt.

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think 8bitgay's assessment is spot on.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I would just like to add a thing - transitioning is indeed a choice. However, for a few people who suffer from extreme gender dysphoria, transitioning can be really the ONLY option that they see that would make their lives not miserable. HOWEVER, this is the case for a really really small amount of people. Nowadays, you see plenty of people who transition WITHOUT gender dysphoria whatsoever, who simply don't mind being the sex they were born with but "prefer" being the other sex (AGP males for example). And you also see plenty of people who do have gender dysphoria but whose gender dysphoria COULD be treated through therapy but instead, doctors and gender clinics are making them taking hormones right away with no other alternative of treatment. In many cases of gender dysphoria, it could be alleviated or even totally treated WITHOUT transitioning. So yeah, for the most part, trans people DO have a choice.

[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Worth pointing out, to add to this, that it doesn't follow from any other mental disorder to feed that disorder. "Transitioning" has just been the political enforced route psychiatrists have had to follow, with no real research into alternatives of note. Instead they classify others as "misdiagnoses" if they respond to traditional therapy. We do not, in any other case, feed delusions or mental illnesses. Transitioning is feeding a delusion that ought to be cured, not made worse.

[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift.[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I've said numerous times before that I support everyone with gender dysphoria, and if it's severe to the point where you feel as though you cannot function correctly in any way, shape, or form, then I will fully support your transitioning regardless of my thoughts on transitioning as an overall procedure.

However, I'm also of the opinion that full transitioning (hormones, reassignment surgery, etc.) should not be promoted as 'safe' by substantial medical corporations whose words will be a very strong factor in a dysphoric person's potential transition, as the majority are currently. Promoting these biologically damaging procedures as 'safe' is just another systematic ploy to rush dysphoric people to hormones, individuals with dysphoria are essentially an endless cash intake for these corporations, and I'd just like them to be way more responsible in how they put their information across, hormones can damage you and it happens often.

I'm also of the opinion that children having puberty blockers is child abuse, but that's a topic for another day.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes I totally agree with you on everything! I was just adding something to what you've already said.

[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift.[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

S'all good! Thanks for the additional info!

[–]BEB 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The most prescribed puberty blocker is Lupron, which is used to castrate sex-offenders.

[–]8bitgay 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nowadays, you see plenty of people who transition WITHOUT gender dysphoria whatsoever, who simply don't mind being the sex they were born with but "prefer" being the other sex (AGP males for example).

There's a certain gay porn actor who is now calling himself non-binary and he said that he doesn't identify as female, but he'll soon have a sex change surgery.

The weirdest part for me is that he's still perfectly fine with calling his porn gay, with being promoted by gay sites, etc.

[–]GayNotQueer 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

From an earlier post -- graphs showing actual rates of violence:

https://i.imgur.com/0l7rqBf.jpg

[–]Moirawr 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s an insidious way to force people through fear to only interact with their in-group. Sounds like a lot of kids detransitioned during quarantine when they weren’t around their “trans” peers all the time.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Only 15 countries in the entire world deem your existence illegal

Not their existence, but making transition is illegal there, in some of those countries being transitioned is still legal.

And it ONLY affects transsexuals, not general crowd transgenders of the modern age, who are not doing surgery. So without surgery they are still legal and fine there. Maximum that transwoman with penis will get in those countries is allegations in being gay and punished as for being gay - not for being transgender, but if they are "transbians" aka straight - they will have no problem even with that.

[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift.[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So they essentially can't be legally punished for anything if they're like most transgender individuals today? Those who just dress up in different clothes, I mean?

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Technically yes, but they still can be treated as homosexuals (or why they are wearing dresses?), even if they are straight, if they will not be able to prove it.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

We need citations and more information. Where did you find this list of 77 countries? How many of the 44 anti-lesbian countries are also anti-gay? What does 'transitioning is illegal' mean? - Is there just not a legal mechanism to change your gender or are you going to be led to the gallows for wearing a dress?

Surely almost all of the 77 countries where being a gay man is a criminal offence will also criminalise being transgender. With the well-known exception of Iran, I don't know of any country that will be pro-trans or trans-indifferent and anti-LGB.

Which means that it's not illegal in 11 countries and fine everywhere else.

[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift.[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

https://www.humandignitytrust.org/lgbt-the-law/map-of-criminalisation/?type_filter=crim_gender_exp

There you go! Highlights places in which same-sex sexual activity/expression of gender identity are criminalised. :D

Also, I made a few typos in my original post, so I'll correct them here as well as edit the post for those who choose to view it from now (I was tired at the time, forgive me lol).

So, here are the mistakes I made:

  • Only 72 jurisdictions criminalise homosexual activity between men, not 77.

  • 4 more (making the total 15) jurisdictions criminalise the act of one expressing their gender identity, and since you asked, they utilise 'cross-dressing' 'impersonation' and 'disguise' laws to punish acts of this nature.

44 is the correct number for which jurisdictions criminalise lesbianism, however. It's also important to keep in mind that bisexuals are 'subjected to threat of arrest and/or arrest' under these statistics (according to the site, anyway) so I'm just gonna assume that they too would be included in these figures.

Hope that clears things up! :D

EDIT: Words.

EDIT 2: Site unfortunately did not specify which countries that discriminate lesbians also discriminate gays, sorry. :(

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Excellent, thank you!

[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift.[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No problem! Do with that what you will. :)

I just thought it was time to start combating the narrative that trans people are the most oppressed people in the world and 'may get killed whenever they go out'.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman🇬🇧🌳🟦 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Oh absolutely, your goal is noble. In the UK at least trans people are at least twice to five times less likely to be murdered than anyone else.

Edit: Half to one fifth as likely to be murdered as everyone else. 'Twice less likely' is meaningless.

[–]BEB 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A women's group in the UK crunched the numbers: born-as male-transgenders in the UK are more likely to be murderers than murdered.

[–]Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift.[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"An average of one trans person is murdered each year in the UK."

Upon presenting them this information, TRA's will probably claim that hate crimes are nonexistent in the UK against homosexuals, nor has one ever occurred, despite the fact that hate crimes against LGB people are shockingly common in the UK.

Oppressed my ass.