ColonizationAh, another argument I've seen coming from TRA's as of late: "The gay and lesbian labels are voluntary self descriptors!"

submitted by Smolders1Cock is god's greatest gift. from self.LGBDropTheT

No, they are not. I did not 'volunteer' to be gay. You cannot 'voluntarily' give yourself the gay or lesbian label. That is called appropriation, dipshit.

This whole thing just kinda makes me feel really tired sometimes. The level the community I'm forcibly aligned with has stooped to is beyond me at this point, they always keep coming up with new shit to confuse people even more and, most importantly, most likely make outsiders or closeted individuals think that the rest of us are mentally deranged buffoons with no sense of maturity.

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[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 46 insightful - 2 fun46 insightful - 1 fun47 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Regardless of what I call myself, I will unfortunately always be solely attracted to the same sex. I could call myself straight until the cows come home, but I would still not be aroused by male bodies or the idea of sex with a man. So while the use of the label gay may be voluntary, existing in a state that fits that descriptor is not. I wish that the queer theory dumbfucks would stop with these pedantic, bullshit non-arguements.

[–]reluctant_commenter 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

So while the use of the label gay may be voluntary, existing in a state that fits that descriptor is not.

Thanks for clarifying this. I do think for some TRAs, it's pedantic-- but others actually believe your sexuality is something you can change. I had a friend tell me that recently :( didn't have the energy to get into conversion therapy or whatever.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Do they ever try changing THEIRS, I wonder? All these TRAs who seem convinced that self-conversion-therapy is so easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy?

They deserve to start getting the response, "You first!"

[–]ChodeSandwichtender and moist 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It's already been tried and the answers are always 1. "I can't bear trans penis/vagina because they trigger my dysphoria." 2. "I'm conveniently in a LTR with the opposite sex and will never have to walk the walk that I talk."

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It's already been tried and the answers are always 1. "I can't bear trans penis/vagina because they trigger my dysphoria." 2. "I'm conveniently in a LTR with the opposite sex and will never have to walk the walk that I talk."

Yeah; it's invariably "self-administered corrective rape for thee but not for me" somehow, isn't it? :(

Since hope springs eternal (and I can't stand seeing them get away with this), have these follow-ups to those "answers" ever worked?:

  • 1.] But how CAN trans penis/vagina trigger your dysphoria if girldick/manpussy really are a thing? They = owner's gender identity, right? Or are you saying that's actually bullshit? So which is it: girldick/manpussy exist, OR trans-junk makes you dysphoric? Can't be both.
  • 1.] Golly gee whiz, trans penis/vagina triggers gay and lesbian people's dysphoria, too! What a coinkydink! So, just like yourself, TRA, they simply can't bear 'em. Sorry! But I'm SURE you understand.
  • 1.] But, cuz girldick/manpussy, doesn't having dysphoria re: trans-genitals = treating them as their bio-sex? So wouldn't that add up to... MISGENDERING??? gasp OMG you're a bigot! Transphobia! REEEEEE
  • 1.] Think ya can't due to being straight? Oh, no worries-- everyone woke is PAN, duh! So now you ain't off-limits to ANY sex or gender! You're welcome :)
  • 2.] Oh, pish-posh, an LTR is no excuse-- haven't you heard that we're all supposed to be poly now? What are you, some alt-right bible-thumper? So get with the program and start "validating" all those trans-crotches, stat! (And hey, even bring your partner along-- the more the merrier!)

I wanna believe that we can exploit the holes in their own stupid ideology (esp. given that it mostly CONSISTS of holes), at least long enough to escape; do you think that this is possible?

[–]divingrightintowork 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

but why can't they change their genderal orientation and just be pan AF....

[–]Shadow_Lurker 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They can't even properly back up their 'sexuality socialization' theory on sociological therms, which let me remind you, exist on the absurd principle that gay man and lesbians are socialized to be attracted to the same-sex, a ridiculous premise on itself.

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They assume that because they call themselves gay for twitter clout, everyone else outside of their woke internet bubble must also be calling themselves gay due to socialization. Unsurprisingly, people in third world countries where being gay is punishable by prison time or death might not be socialized into being attracted to the same sex.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is the most insane "argument" they make. Oh yeah, I was definitely socialized to be attracted to the same sex as a teenager in the Bible Belt in the 00s!

[–]8bitgay 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's such a great comment. That's exactly it! So many gays and lesbians are forced to stay in the closet for decades. They might call themselves straight or they might not even call themselves anything. Still, regardless of labels, they're still gay and lesbian people feeling attracted to the same sex.

There are many different names and labels to call gay/lesbian people in different cultures, but as you said, the state of feeling attracted to the same sex is the same.

But the neo-sexuality people have to put all the weight of the issue in how they call themselves, because if you ignore the label they're just basic straight people.

[–]CaptainMooseEx-Bathhouse Employee 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gay/homosexual is an apt description of my body and it's responses to sexual stimuli. I am biologically a man and I am only aroused by other biological men (not all of them, just the ones who take decent care of themselves and are my age or older). My body does not respond to biological women in the same way it does men. If it did, I would be bisexual.

I also don't find women physically attractive in any way. I can respect them and admire their innate individual qualities, but everything about them including their faces and how they smell are not physically attractive to me.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I also don't find women physically attractive in any way. I can respect them and admire their innate individual qualities, but everything about them including their faces and how they smell are not physically attractive to me.

As a bi chick I be so confused by this lol

But I respect how different we all are. Pretty neat

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 18 insightful - 9 fun18 insightful - 8 fun19 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

Kinda think that the gay & lesbian response needs to be:

"My label, no matter WHAT it is, will always come down to the same thing: still not gonna fuck ya".

[–]reluctant_commenter 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Can I add to that and complain about the word "identify" for a moment? I don't want to "identify" as anything. It's like me saying, "Ah, I've identified myself as a human!" I would be a human whether I like it or not, whether I am aware of it or not. There's a lot to be said for awareness, but wilfully "identifying" as a squirrel instead is ridiculous.

I am generally optimistic about people and I think most people.. do mean well, when they say the word "identify" in that way. But saying I identify as something implies I had a conscious choice in deciding to BE that something. It's not a lifestyle. It's just an unchosen fact of who I am.

I know we talk about this in here, but I had someone tell me something similar to that tonight, and I just... I'm tired. Being gay is not some fun choice I made, it is literally just a fact about me same as my eye color or shoe size.

[–]ThiccDropkickGay 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I’ve always felt weird about guys I see who say “I identify as gay” or “I identify as a gay man” you just know there’s something going on lol

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 7 insightful - 6 fun7 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

In general, if you replace the words "identify as" with "am not" in these situations, it helps to clarify the meaning a bit.

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But saying I identify as something implies I had a conscious choice in deciding to BE that something.

This is something that pisses me off about the nonbinary thing. Since I haven't identified as something outside of woman, obviously that means I am consciously choosing to be a woman (and consciously choosing everything that goes along with being a woman, stereotypes, harrassment, sexism, etc) instead of just that I am one, period. It almost makes me feel like I deserve all of that, because I am "choosing it" by "choosing to identify as a woman"

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 18 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Words are signifiers. They have to mean something. You can’t just apply a word to yourself just because you want to. That’s not what language works. I’m not gay because I want to be gay, I’m gay just because I am a male who is exclusively attracted to other males. But if these freaks insist on watering down the meaning of words, then what is the point in calling myself gay? Why don’t I just say that I only want to date men with penises and who were born male? Of course, given that words like men, male and penis could also become meaningless, why don’t we just stop talking altogether and just grunt, growl and roar like gorillas and chimpanzees do?

[–]Shadow_Lurker 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If these people heard about the linguistic principle of semantic exclusion (a chair is a chair because it's not floor or ceiling) their heads would explode.

[–]Willpoll 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Voluntary self descriptors don't make sense because being gay isn't voluntary. I didn't choose to be attracted to men exclusively, it just happened. They really don't get it do they?

[–]Shadow_Lurker 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Technically they are right: gay and lesbian can function as self-descriptors.

But, like the old saying goes: the devil is on the details.

What identitarians don't understand is that you can't bullshit and expect people to forget the basic principle that descriptors exist to categorise material reality.

A straight person can describe themselves as gay/lesbian as much as they want, but in the end people will see the contradiction between their self-description and material reality, resulting in them being treated no different from any other straight person.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup. Exactly. The proof is in the pudding.

[–]blackrainbow 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This happend after a friend of mine tried to explain self identification to me:

me: "then I am straight because now I identify as straight"

TRA friend: "but you are not straight, you have sex with girls"

The end. They always contradict themselves with a bit of logic. People need to study more maths

[–]Shadow_Lurker 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People need to study more maths.

Not even math: basic rhetoric and philosophy teaches this stuff already.

[–]Lessom 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The fact they get away with blatant homophobia just because they identify as queer/trans or other made up gender nonsense, makes it even more annoying.

[–]ChodeSandwichtender and moist 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Postmodernism was a mistake.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is why I side eye anyone who says "I identify as X." Identity bullshit is how we got into this mess in the first place. Because somehow it became possible to become a thing simply by identifying as that thing. Sexuality isn't something you opt into or wear like an accessory. I didn't volunteer to be bi any more than I 'volunteered' to be short. Matter of fact I wish I didn't have to spend years of my life wondering if something was wrong with me for being attracted to both sexes.

[–]LasagnaRossa 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Btw I love your name XD

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks! I kinda feel bad because I saw it on twitter and thought it was funny but there have been a few people here who've asked me if I'm the Vulvamort from twitter. I am not haha. But she is pretty cool if you're into GC stuff. @HairyLeggdHarpy

[–]fuckupaddamsBisexual Terve 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Kinda like how being a woman is a voluntary self descriptor now

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One thing that tends to perpetually amuse me in all of this is that I remain objectively gay and objectively male both from my own perspective and that of other people's. I don't have to 'prove' it to anyone. There is no argument to be had and no debate to be had. I'm homosexual, I'm attracted to the same-sex and only the same-sex.

Yet these gormless idiots spend their days trying to appropriate sexualities and a gender identities that aren't theirs and never will be, no matter how hard they try. And try they certainly do--to creep into spaces, identities and sexualities that are patently not theirs instead of simply embracing their own identity as distinct from ours.

In a more reasonable world appropriation and dysphoria would be evidence enough that reality isn't subjective, and attempts to make it so are fundamentally flawed.

Men are men. Women are women. Trans men are trans men. Trans women are trans women.

Gay men are men who sleep with men. Lesbians and gay women are women who sleep with women. Bisexuals are men or women who sleep with men and women. Straight people are men or women who sleep with the opposite sex. Pansexuals are people who sleep with people regardless of their sex or gender. 'Sleep' being defined in this context as sex, love, intimacy and attraction.

I presume I have this correct?

I do wish we could all simply accept being who/what we are and move on with our lives without trying to creep into spaces and identities that don't belong to us.

However you look at it, trans men/women are not 'like' men and women. They are psychologically and physiologically different. And that's fine. But they are no more a man or a woman than I, as a man, am a woman. And there is sweet bugger-all that will ever change that.

Why does any of this even need to be spelled out?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So what they're saying is trans is a fucking voluntary self label too. Ahhh fuck offff

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I say we can let them have lesbian and gay. I'm a homosexual- oh wait, that's an offensive term now, according to Merriam Webster?

Oh well, I'd rather be correct than politically correct