Men's IssuesSam Smith Interview on NPR

submitted by JulienMayfair from self.LGBDropTheT

I heard this interview last Saturday in the car and found it revealing, though not, perhaps, in the way Smith thought it would be. Smith talked at length about all his various mental illnesses, including OCD, and his being "genderqueer." I found myself coming away from it feeling a mixture of pity and frustration. My sense, having looked into Smith's biography, is that Smith is a gay male who has long had a troubled relationship towards traditional masculinity. In particular, as a child, he apparently had gynecomastia, for which he was treated, but rather than simply enjoying being gender non-conforming, it became more psychologically tolerable for him to identify into the novel category of genderqueer. But then, based on the rest of the interview, it's so clear that it's all tied into his various openly-admitted mental illnesses.

I can't help but think that in an age where kids are constantly bombarded with images of what an ideal physique should look like, a certain percentage of those who don't match that ideal fail to see the ideal as the bullshit that it is and, instead, feel the need to reject it by claiming that are -- and were always -- something else. In other words, calling oneself genderqueer is pretty obviously a kind of compensatory mechanism for someone who, in fact, takes gender stereotypes very, very seriously and can't handle not conforming to them. I guess Smith, despite all his money and success, sees himself as a failed man and needs to find conformity in some imaginary identity. I think it's part of the unhealthy levels of self-consciousness encouraged by internet culture.

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[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 34 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 0 fun35 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like your analysis. I think this is spot on for genderqueer/non-binary types. When I tell them gender isn’t important to me and that I don’t “identify with a gender” and they try to convince me I’m gender queer or agender, I’m just like no because I don’t think about my “gender” ever. I would hate to constantly have a benchmark to compare myself to and think about how well I am or am not complying with a label. I need that mental energy for other things.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If this is true I kind of feel like an ass. I always thought he was a pretentious attention-seeking fuckwad. But I can absolutely understand what it's like to be physically gender non conforming (for me that means being intersex, but also extends to having things like gynecomastia or simply just looking more "girly") and how not fitting in with "being a man" can have psychological impact.

However, this isn't the way to go about doing it. Publicly declaring yourself "genderqueer" and demanding that people use "they/them pronouns" for is a step too far I just can't have sympathy for. This negatively affects real people. It's one thing for Sam himself to say "Well I wasn't manly enough, so now I accept myself as a he-she unmanly other" but what he doesn't seem to realize is that he's putting that message on others. He's saying that if you are male and you wear makeup and/or you're gay and/or you want to be a pop singer, or anything along those lines, then you are no longer male. That is a dangerous message to spread when you are a celebrity.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 14 insightful - 8 fun14 insightful - 7 fun15 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

This is perhaps the most reasonable, non-caps locky response I've ever seen from you, Salty. Well said.

[–]worried19 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

It's interesting because he does fit the appearance of a conventionally attractive man. I don't see anything about Smith that would indicate people wouldn't be attracted to him as he is. It's sad that he would consider himself a "failed man" in any respect.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 22 insightful - 3 fun22 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Toxic masculinity is very specific and people can be deemed "unmanly" for the stupidest of things. There are literally men who believe that touching your ass to wash it in the shower is gay and effeminate, for example. Or that being the one who cooks makes you less of a man. You could be very physically masculine but deemed to be "unmanly" over one little behavior. It's weird.

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't see anything about Smith that would indicate people wouldn't be attracted to him as he is.

But for some people, there's a major disconnect between how other people see them and how they see themselves.

And, in Smith's case, consider that he talks constantly about his various mental health problems, which in and of itself used to be something taboo for men to do. Men of my father's generation would NEVER have told someone that they were seeing a psychiatrist. And imagine he was a boy with gynecomastia and may have gotten teased about it.

Overall, his presentation of his gender issues didn't do much to separate it from his mental health problems. It made them sound linked.

I believe his ex broke up with him and moved in with Richard Madden, who is a much more conventionally attractive man than Smith. Maybe that drove him over the edge.

[–]slushpilot 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

for some people, there's a major disconnect between how other people see them and how they see themselves

This is what I would technically consider to be at the root of dysphoria. What's really messed up is telling that person "nah, how you see yourself is valid—it's everyone else who is crazy".

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree completely.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Robb Stark/Prince Charming is at minimum bi? This was news to me but it looks like it checks out. It’s a shame that I’m sure he’s under strict orders to keep it on the down low for his career because he’s convincing in hetero roles regardless of whether he’s gay or bi. Admittedly this makes me want to be a hypocritical creep and go over-analyze his scenes with women.

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Robb Stark/Prince Charming is at minimum bi?

Girlfriend, rumors have been circulating for YEARS about the late, lamented Lord of Winterfell and his "roommate." It's very 1950s.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Oh man, just a couple of roommates. Nothing to see here. Nothing at all. Nope.

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

He did play a gay character in Elton John's biopic, locking lips with Taron Egerton, which is pretty much gay to the third power ;-)

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

After hearing this, I still have no sympathy for Sam Smith. Yes, there are people out there who set an unreasonably high bar for masculinity that only a minority of men can reach. But there are also a lot of people who attack masculinity on a regular basis and want men to be more feminine. No matter how masculine or feminine you are, you can’t please everybody, so why bother? If you have XY-chromosomes, you’re male. If you’re an adult male, you’re a man. End of discussion.

I don’t know what is going through Sam Smith's head, but I highly doubt that he’s calling himself non-binary or wants his hypothetical children to call him "mummy" because he feels he’s not manly enough to be considered a man and because of those chest problems. Maybe those are factors, sure. But it seems like Sam Smith's success at the start of his career was helped by him going public with his sexual orientation and the resulting hype died down his popularity slipped. Now that going by some made up gender is a fad, Sam Smith thinks he’s found a way to rebound his popularity. I wonder what his strategy will be when being non-binary falls out of fashion like being emo did.

[–]insta 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sam Smith went on social media to cry about COVID-19 quarantine in his multi-million British pound home.

Take this guy with a grain of salt. Don't buy into the "tortured artist" shtick.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Very true. Any pity I felt for him dissolved when he announced his breakdown online. He didn't have to do that, he chose to do so, albeit theatrically, just to stay in the spotlight a while longer.

[–]insta 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Celebrities are just so disconnected from reality. The same people that will tell you how awful the world is and how you need to behave will not think twice about telling you how awful they have had it during quarantine lockdown. Madonna did something similar, it's just so disgusting. These people must have zero self-awareness to think they're suffering is at all comparable to some single-mother or some roommates all living paycheque to paycheque.

It's hard to tell if they're just lying and exaggerating or if they are really just this far out to lunch.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think some of them deluded themselves into thinking that this is what people wanted in this situation, them showing themselves without makeup.

"We're all in this together, we're just like you guys!"

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In other words, calling oneself genderqueer is pretty obviously a kind of compensatory mechanism for someone who, in fact, takes gender stereotypes very, very seriously and can't handle not conforming to them.

Absolutely agree. I often wonder how easily I might have gone down that route if I had not been aware from a young age that some kids confirmed to the stereotypes of their sex and some didn't. I grew up knowing what a "tomboy" was, so I was like, All right, I just am a girl who doesn't like girly stuff and that's that.