all 18 comments

[–]SuperGayIsOkay 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Honestly? You'll have to at least pretend to respect her pronouns, not that you'd ever use "they" in her presence unless you're talking to another friend in the room. Otherwise she's not likely to remain friends. Trying to have an intervention or something is more likely just to alienate her and make her hate you. If you tell her you're not comfortable seeing her as "non-binary" and can't help but seeing her as a girl, just be prepared for her to end the relationship. It sucks, I know.

[–]Happy_Blueberry3910 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I have a silly question. If MtF believe that they are "women", then why they use "they" instead of "she"? If FtM believe that they are "men", then why they use "they" instead of "he"?

P.S. English isn't my 1st language.

[–]BusterGrundle 8 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Your English is fine, it just doesn't make any sense to us either.

[–]Happy_Blueberry3910 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

According to CNN website:

Some members of the LGBTQ+ community who identify as non-binary, gender non-conforming or genderqueer prefer "they/them" pronouns to reflect their identity and gender expression, rather than "he/him" or "she/her" pronouns that designate a person as male or female.

so it seems that they really don't like any biological stuff.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

so it seems that they really don't like any biological stuff.

Correct, because pretending to be the opposite sex that you are requires you to deny reality. Human biology is a constant reminder of that reality, though. So people who believe in transgender ideology often feel threatened by biology, because their beliefs require them to deny reality and the existence of human biology challenges that.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I remembered when back then we learnt the word "they", it was a polite form of saying he/she. So I used to use "they" to indirectly say something somebody did without directly calling them out lol. Now it has political meanings, so I don't use it much. Also not sure if it's considered grammatically correct from what I learnt...

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn’t know how to react if I was in your situation. Although I’d probably distance myself from a friend who wanted me to use they/them camps. I’m just glad that my best friend is strongly against this woke gender shit.

[–]hellonumpty 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've been going through something similar recently with a friend. He was once a proud gay man and now she is a ~pansexual~ trans woman and it genuinely feels like I've lost my friend. It's hard to explain but it's like the core of who he once was is no longer there for the most part. This person that I've known for 10 years is suddenly an entirely different person. Yet sometimes I still see glimpses of that person he used to be? I don't know if that makes any sense but it's so wild. So jarring.

I think you just need to do what you're comfortable with. It's really hard to try to reconcile your own views on trans activism and also have someone in your life who is deep in it. You know how most of these people feel if you misgender them or don't get their pronouns correct, so if you're not willing to call her 'they' and she perceives that as a slight, your friendship will probably be damaged anyway. If you want to keep your friendship, you'll probably just have to bite your tongue and accept that she's a 'they' now.

[–]Femaleisnthateful 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I would be curious what makes 'they/them' 'not a girl?' Can you ask them to explain what characteristics are incompatible with being a girl? Do they feel their biology is no longer female biology? You don't have to phrase it as an inquisition, just as genuine curiousity.

[–]sunzzy[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well that is what I want to know, I don't get why gender is being made so complicated; I'm not a girl because I like make-up and the colour pink I'm a girl because of my biology. Similarly the fact that I steal my dads clothes doesn't turn me into a boy. Non-binary seems like a much worse version of 'I'm not like other girls' and it makes me sad that girls are being told that if they don't fit gender roles perfectly then they can't be real girls.

[–]dreamgermsbisexual nightmare 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

she used to be proud to be a gender non-conforming girl

It’s so sad the TQ+ crowd has convinced gender non-conforming people that they are not men or women but an entire “other”. It’s insanely regressive and I don’t get how they don’t see that. Gender roles are what need to be eliminated, not the people who fail to conform to them. But I suppose if we did that, we wouldn’t have dozens of useless labels for people to feel special. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this with your friend, but maybe after awhile it won’t be as “trendy” and your friend will grow out of it. Definitely don’t let her force you into being quiet about how you feel or what you believe, though!

[–]GConly 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My cousin (married woman, kids) has just come out as as a transman. Basically no change, except a shorter hair cut and demands about her pronouns.

I guess claiming you've nuked your marriage because of your trauma from secretly being trans for 35 years is more acceptable to her equity and inclusion based adult ed mates than admitting she's a closet lesbian who moved her gf into the family home.

Resulting in her husband getting a gf too. Cue total marriage implosion. Confused and upset little kids, oldest is about eight.

I've been blocked for being horribly transphobic.

I give this phase two years tops.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

but if she asks me to call her 'they' then I don't know how I should respond

Depends on your relationship with the person... In my country and from where my partner is from, we are VERY blunt with friends/family(unless they're elders, we would get smacked for doing that haha). So, just depends. If my brothers/partner ever were to turn trans, I would question them and show them receipts of how it's a misogynistic idealogy and explain my point of view as a detrans woman. Though, I don't have to worry about that since they're already against trans ideology. They are the people I am closest to though.

An easier way without offending her is just asking her questions. "Oh you're nonbinary, how did you discover that?". If she gives you answers stating "because I don't like traditionally feminine/masculine things", I would challenge that and say "If I don't like makeup, does that make me automatically a man? If a man doesn't like sports does that automatically make him a woman?" But...A bit more tactful than how I worded it haha. Perhaps ask her "What makes a man a man and a woman a woman?" To get a better idea of what she thinks. Ask her questions, show her studies if necessary. I had friends in past that I didn't agree with everything on, but they were mature enough not to take it as a personal attack, and that's how it should be.

I also have a cousin that's MtF now for maybe 2 years, we're not really close anymore so I don't have to worry about tippy-toe for his feelings on that plus he lives far away.

The whole pronoun thing seems kinda...silly. People say "refer to me as she/he/they etc" but that's 3rd person, so 9 times out of 10, they won't really hear you call them by their sex pronoun, unless you're in a group setting or something. My brothers and I still refer to our trans male cousin as a he, it's not like he hears us from kilometers away saying that and will have the PC police after us.

[–]JoeyJoeJoe 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This gender crap is a mind virus. A new religion. My need to be honest outweighs my need to respect this dogma.

[–]ShotTopic 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You have to pick your battles. If you value this friendship just say "they" when required, or use their first name more often if you're hesitant. There's a difference between discussing your concerns about groups/trends online and having a personal interaction with someone you care about that can get hurt.

Personally, I don't have a problem with using people's chosen pronouns offline. For me, this stuff doesn't happen often and I don't care enough to stress about it offline; plus I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. If I feel weird about it or struggle to change someone's pronouns when speaking because of how I perceive them (such as someone who doesn't pass at all or only very recently came out), I just avoid using pronouns in general about them.

But that's just how I handle things, I'm not one for confrontation and have a hard time being purposely rude. If you want to burn this bridge that's up to you.