DiscussionWhy is it that we have some radical LGB feminist saying that the TRA are men's right activists and alt right. when the TRA are saying that you guys are men's right activist and alt right? men's right activist don't really give a shit about us.

submitted by theapplecivilization from self.LGBDropTheT

my opinion Cause if I am being honest if you someone who said this you sound crazy. men's right activist aren't interested in being a women. they are proud being men and staying man and some of them think that women are solipsistic by nature. I don't think there going to be wanting to be women, if that's the idea of women.

I don't think that about women. I feel like, I should say that. I think a lot of people are self absorbed these days, but I don't think that about women

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[–]reluctant_commenter 18 insightful - 6 fun18 insightful - 5 fun19 insightful - 6 fun -  (7 children)

Here are some TRAs (trans rights activists) who are also MRAs (men's rights activists): r/transmaxxing https://www.reddit.com/r/transmaxxing

They think that "If you pass as a female then people will treat you better" oh please.

For me personally-- I am generally against TRAs, MRAs, and radfems. Can we put all three in a room where they can shout at each other, so they'll leave the rest of us alone? Thanks.

[–]oofreesouloo⚡super lesbian⚡ 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

For me personally-- I am generally against TRAs, MRAs, and radfems. Can we put all three in a room where they can shout at each other, so they'll leave the rest of us alone? Thanks.

😂😂😂😂 Preach !!!

[–]milknciggiesLGBToxic 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's hilarious. We've come full circle.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It seems like all those movements are sexist tbh, so I agree with you in being against those movements. And to those wondering, ye, even radfems can be misogynistic...I've seen some infighting with them, they shame/judge women who don't fit in their box and call them "handmaidens" for wearing makeup... and turn around saying "well, we're not the fun kind of feminism".

MRA movement is a joke and stupid waste of time---their ONLY existence seems to be to combat feminism and basically talk about how MORE oppressed they are than women and how easy women have it. LOL

TRAs... You already know what's wrong with that movement, and there's a LOT wrong.

This is why part of the reason why I don't align with any ideology, they get too extreme. I'm staying unaligned.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And to those wondering, ye, even radfems can be misogynistic...I've seen some infighting with them, they shame/judge women who don't fit in their box and call them "handmaidens" for wearing makeup... and turn around saying "well, we're not the fun kind of feminism".

EXACTLY. I have thought that for SO LONG. More "not like the other girls" why exactly are you shaming and comparing fellow women? I think that much of radfem's sexism is benevolent sexism. "Women are so much more [positive trait] than men!" like no, I just want equality, we don't get equality by making up unsubstantiated claims about how women are more magical or whatever.

I think there are kernels of truth in each group's ideology... even TRAs'. But in each, there is also a ton of black-and-white thinking, and illogical claims.

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way lol, sometimes it kinda feels like "you must be radfem if you're anti-TRA!" and that's just not accurate. I used to think Salty was being unfair in his depiction of radfems but honestly, the more I learn about their ideology, the more suspicious I am.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's ironic because they're like "NotLikeOtherGirlsWhoAreNotLikeOtherGirls™"(but really NotLikeOtherGirls™)

The benelovent sexism just feels like a weird way of handicapping(?) or babying(?) women by saying "women are better than men at XYZ", "women can't do wrong!! UNLESS they're a sex-positive, makeup wearing, feminine performing, harlot handmaiden who sucks the dick of the patriarchy!!!"

Also...just curious on how many are TRULY lesbian women and not just the stereotype of "political lesbians"(aka spicy straights), which makes normal lesbian women look bad...I think I've seen some comments stating they wish they werent bisexual/straight and wish they were lesbians because of how "terrible" men are...

That is true, there are kernels of truth to each movement. I just get sick of how they act very absolute about it all.

Haha, I know who you mean by Salty. I was curious on why he was extremely against radical feminism, then I took a closer dive and even made an account on a radfems website...It's just not for me. There were some cool people I could click with and who I respect, but the majority, not really.

According to TRAs, if we don't agree with them, then they automatically deem us a "TERF", aka Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist which is...just silly and doesn't make sense---they always throw that term at women too. Some TRAs proposed terms such as TELP now lol, Trans Exclusionary LGB people and TEHM which is Trans Exclusionary Homosexual Men. I'm a bit surprised by TEHM, because in their eyes, I thought that a normal term such as "homosexual" is offensive to them? Or maybe they are trying to offend us? Lol

[–]theapplecivilization[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

reddit does nothing about them saying they are men's right activist only TRAs. this is what I'm talking about no offense but you're clearly grasping at straws. that story about a feminine men who believe it is he trans woman in bible bait state and how as a woman he being treating better which is sad that you're comparing that with MRA's. sound like he gay or bi doesn't know or accept it yet but because been bully call faggot and gay. he doesn't justify his bully action as to call him gay by coming out trans is new conversion. he talk manly men hitting on him and very clear he like it from his writing.

[–]reluctant_commenter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't say that all TRAs are MRAs. I just shared one example community where there is overlap between the two groups. I'm not the one who made the claim. Perhaps whoever you heard say this overestimated the prevalence of these people? Or maybe, as one or two other commenters suggested, they said, "TRAs are like MRAs" in that they use the same tactics or for the fact that the transgender movement is majorly driven by men (transwomen).

edit: Also I'm not radfem, and your post was about radfems, so maybe they believe something I'm not aware of. You could go ask at s/GenderCritical.

[–]julesburm1891 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the sentiment is supposed to be “a bunch of men are campaigning for their ‘rights’ at the expense of women,” not that they’re literal MRAs. Then again, I’m not a radfem. So, take that with a grain of salt.

[–]latuspodSuper Straight 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are definitely MRAs that are also TRAs. Left leaning MRAs were very against the Vancouver Rape Relief excluding trans women. They saw it as women demonizing men, and making men all out to be inherently violent.

I looked into MRA stuff a few years ago, after watching Red Pill by Cassie Jaye, and seriously contemplating divorce which is extremely prejudiced against men. It was the leftist non sense that turned me away from it. It isn't really one thing there is leftist MRAs and alt-right MRAs, and a small few liberal and rational MRAs. Most vocal MRAs have the same problem as most vocal feminists, they are completely self-absorbed.

Alt-right is mostly used as a scare whistle to discredit whoever you are arguing against.

[–]insta 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Some of the more traditional radfem's in these spaces still haven't fully accepted the reality that they're no longer in control. These types of feminists have been drunk on power for years now. Many of them just make piss poor arguments and have simply gotten by because they can slander their opponents as sexist or whatever is the flavour of the day.

Now, since they don't like ladydick, they've been thrown off the woke wagon and tossed into the gutter with us. These people fundamentally don't know how to make a coherent argument without making everyone into the boogeyman. They're so used to just labelling someone and moving on but now they're the bigot and they can't cope with that.

Seriously, if you view transwomen through the lens of "men just hate women/lesbians" and that's it, that is a super myopic lens to view this issue through. It's more difficult than "transwomen are misygonist" or "transwomen are homophobic". This issue is more complicated than a bumpersticker slogan but these people cannot grasp that.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Hey, I'm curious-- this has also been my impression of radfems. I've recently started to read about their movement a little more because they seem to have tried to co-opt LGB spaces and movements similarly to how TRAs have done. Would you happen to have any reading suggestions, or terms to google?

[–]insta 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Would you happen to have any reading suggestions, or terms to google?

Camille Paglia is a good start.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–]theapplecivilization[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

agreed

[–]wokuspokusWoman in a man’s world, TERF in whatever we call this madness 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t use it but I can see a pretty firm logic in it. It’s because TRAs focus almost entirely on transwomen** (I.e. men), so they are campaigning for men’s rights (or rather, privileges). It’s also to dissociate them from feminism. Nowadays, trans is a massive part of feminism (which must be intersectional, on pain of cancelling). Taking the ‘trans’ out of what we call these people weakens that association. Does ‘men’s rights activist’ sound in any way feminist to you?

** just want to add that the only time they care about transmen is when they’re telling women what we have to call ourselves. These people despise women.

[–]supersmokio6420 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Its strange to me because MRAs were never on board with gender ideology. There's plenty of criticism to make of them, but buying into gender shit isn't one.

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Believe it or not, there is some overlap, or at least there is strong overlap between male "incels" (some of whom are MRAs) and the transgender movement: see r/transmaxxing https://www.reddit.com/r/transmaxxing

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

its a tool from the sjw toolbox, instead of debating your opponents ideas, just label them right wing and therefore off limits to engage with.

[–]ThiccDropkickGay 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sure there are some MRA's who buy into TRA nonsense but overall they're very against gender ideology. It's a flawed movement propped up by victim complexes that refuses to acknowledge issues that don't affect them, but radfems are no better in that regard.

[–]ImNOTRobertPaulson 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My cynical answer: it's easy. Why take the time to formulate a well-reasoned, researched argument, when you can just label your opponent as something bad? Tra's know this well. They don't have to actually have a discussion when they can just call someone a terf or transphobe.