RantGenderthink has made gay people stupid

submitted by JulienMayfair from self.LGBDropTheT

I did a little arguing with people about gender identity today on that other forum from whence we were expelled, and, damn, it's amazing what poor skills of argumentation people have these days and how they melt down when you offer them facts that contradict their received opinions.

For example, offer someone video proof of Marsha P. Johnson claiming to be a gay man and a transvestite. They go insane trying to argue that Johnson didn't really mean that.

And I'm used to the routine of, "You're such a bad person that I'm just going to walk away." It's pretty much the only move left to them since they can't support anything they say with evidence-based reasoning. It's either that or ban us.

To their histrionic departures from the conversation, I would offer the words of the dowager countess, "Is that a promise?"

It's so easy to win arguments with these people, and it drives them absolutely bonkers.

It's sad that this has become such a divisive issue and has filled people's heads with so much mush. That's the only word for it: mush. Ten years ago, gay people were making incisive arguments about why we deserved to be married just like anyone else, and now we've lost our edge. We've replaced that edge with received opinions and empty gestures of moral superiority.

Ralph Waldo Emerson warned us of the dangers of a debased language where words lose their force because they've lost their relationship to the things people claim to be talking about. That's what genderthink is doing to us.

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[–]fuck_reddit 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I just finished a nine week course on Medieval education and the stuff the monks knew in the Dark Ages would shame even the most educated of moderns. It’s pathetic how incompetent people are at argumentation nowadays.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sounds interesting, any examples of things they knew that might surprise people?

[–]fuck_reddit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They knew that the earth was round and that mercury and venus orbited the sun around 800 AD. It took them a bit longer though to figure out the other planets lol.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Echo chambers. Echo chambers are the main reason why gay people, and people in general, are getting dumber and dumber. In an echo chamber, you don’t hear the opposing arguments except for straw arguments that makes the opposition look stupid, crazy and/or evil. Echo chambers have been promoted by social media, college campuses, censorship and cancel culture. Other factors include increased dependency on the government, college campuses becoming insane asylums and propaganda from the legacy media.

[–]Dromedary 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It's an extraordinary thing that we have ACTUAL VIDEO of Marsha/Malcom SAYING HIMSELF that he's NOT a woman, NOT trans, that he's a GAY MAN who does drag, end of story. And the gender dingbats of today refuse to believe it! They'll believe the fruitiest, most fanciful garbage barges of bullshit, but not this.

Malcolm/Marsha also admitted he wasn't at Stonewall when it started, but he changed his story constantly because as as Fred Sargeant= who was at Stonewall and knew Johnson- Malcolm was "a drug addict, a liar, and a thief". He was a known pest, likely mentally ill, and avoided by most of the gays on the scene then, he had a bad reputation.

SO it's really depressing that it's not just the gender loonies making grandiose false claims about Johnson, these past few days I see a handful of Democratic politicians doing it too, and it makes me want to scream.

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The cult of St. Marsha is very strange. It's clear from the documentary about Johnson that he was a very difficult personality, sometimes threatening to the people around him. I think I heard he was banned from some local gay bars in the 70s/80s for being hostile towards other patrons.

That's part of what makes me wonder what the hell was going on in the 6-7 months that he and Sylvia Rivera were trying to help homeless gay youth via the much-mythologized S.T.A.R. I mean, imagine having nowhere else to go but an apartment rented by someone with untreated schizophrenia.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Even people who are experienced debaters go braindead over gender issues. I know a lawyer who makes annoying pedantic arguments about definitions of words. Then I showed him that same video and suddenly he's fully off on emotional tangents and saying he knows better than Johnson about the exact words he used but me listening to the exact words is wrong because I am trying to "decide who is or isn't trans."

Just totally saying something the exact opposite of what's happening.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 10 insightful - 10 fun10 insightful - 9 fun11 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

For fun i like to confuse them and fake the emotional reply.

"OMG why are you misgendering him?! You all think its so horrible to be misgendered yet you do this to a dead gay man? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU? Are you that homophobic?"

Then watch them try to squirm their way out of it hahaha

[–]our_team_is_winning 11 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

I am trying to "decide who is or isn't trans."

Did you tell him NOBODY is trans. That's like asking "who is or isn't a werewolf."

[–]hufflepuff-poet 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I died laughing at this. 😂😂😂

[–]usehername 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Adherence to ideology :X

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

We really are living in the dark ages.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

its the modern sjw movement, and lgb and t are brainwashed by it. lived experience is a counter argument, and the narrative is more important than the historical facts. They aren't taught how to think, but what to think. And to shut out anyone who thinks different.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 18 insightful - 4 fun18 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

"Lived experience" is only an valid argument if it supports their contentions. I just got into a mildly amusing reddit interchange with someone who was trying to deny another person's very awful experience in a therapy group that consisted of 2 trans people bitching about "misgendering" while this person was coping with the loss of 3 close family members in a short period of time. (If you happen to run across that interchange, yes I started intentionally being a dick because some people earn it. No apologies.)

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sometimes you gotta be a dick. Never apologise.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I can run across it with a link hint hint

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I've given up on well-sourced arguments for the most part. I used to give long, complex, logical arguments with sources but ... what's that quote about teaching pigs to sing? Now I just give one-liners. It's not worth the effort to argue, and many of them will engage you in a loop just to waste your time. Sorry, but I'm going to save the logic-energy for my work, where it actually produces something of value.

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've realized that there's no point in arguing with the gender-believers, but I will do it sometimes in the hope that perhaps someone else will read it and be encouraged.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That's fair. I salute you for those efforts, its God's work.

[–]kwallio 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Its like arguing with creationists. When someone is arguing from emotion and just filling in random factoids in their arguments there is no point to the whole exercise. They have no duty to be factual or to make sense because to them they are doing a righteous duty and must beat down the unbeliever.

[–]our_team_is_winning 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Its like arguing with creationists.

One of my best friends is the son of an imam and can quote the Quran in three languages. Hardcore Creationist. (Not all Muslims are; certain areas of the Middle East are hardcore.)

He will never put forth any explanation other than a quote from Islamic scripture.

There isn't an official Trans Holy Book (is there???) but it's the same energy -- defend the faith at the expense of logic or using your own brain, or your eyes.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Could you give me the link to that Marsha video ?

I think people were already stupid and thats why the gendercult got so big. I don't know what it is. They spend all their time on their phone reading things and at the same time they dont read anything. About 60% of them do not understand the words they use and use them wrong. They can't make an argument to save their life.

[–]usehername 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Interview where he says he's a gay man in drag:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdUEFtPFJLo

Interview where he says he arrived after the riots began:

Johnson recalled arriving at around "2:00 [that morning]", that "the riots had already started" by that time and that the Stonewall building "was on fire" after police set it on fire.

https://makinggayhistory.com/podcast/episode-11-johnson-wicker/

[–]NeedMoreCoffee~=[,,_,,]=^_^= 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you very much! <3

[–]usehername 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Apparently there's also a Netflix documentary, but you could probably find it free somewhere (archive.org?) if you don't have Netflix:

https://www.netflix.com/title/80189623

[–]usehername 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're welcome :)

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ten years ago, gay people were making incisive arguments about why we deserved to be married just like anyone else, and now we've lost our edge.

I wouldn't say that-- here you are, still arguing! And here's our sub. Rather, the people in the so-called LGBTQ+ movement are mostly not LGB, and as such, they don't have the perspective of someone who's actually same sex attracted.

Ralph Waldo Emerson warned us of the dangers of a debased language where words lose their force because they've lost their relationship to the things people claim to be talking about. That's what genderthink is doing to us.

I agree with this. I wonder whether it mirrors a much broader de-emphasis of critical thinking skills.