Transing ChildrenTrans people in conversion therapy?

submitted by Rage-Xion from self.LGBDropTheT

Ok I have a question about an uneasy matter so I'll excuse myself in advance.

When arguing that children with gender disphoria might need therapy instead of castrating them or hooking them on puberty blockers, the answer from activists is often "so you arguing in favor of conversion therapy? It has alreay proven not to work!"

However, I cant find on internet cases of conversion therapy for trans people. All testimonies I find from survivors are from same-sex attracted people (LGB) and not from trans people. I do find articles onreparative therapy like wikipedia that claims they aimed to "change a person's sexual orientation or gender identity" but as usual, it's lumping gay and trans people together without providing specific cases.

So my question is are there cases of therapy for gender disphoria that made trans people fell worse than just transitioning?

all 16 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]MyLongestJourney 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the answer from activists is often "so you arguing in favor of conversion therapy? It has alreay proven not to work!"

Tell them not to conflate conversion therapy for homosexuality with efforts to help people feel comfortable in their own bodies and prevent them from amputating their sex organs and destroying their bodies with cross sex hormones. Most of the children with GID will get over it when they grow up (over 80% in fact). Watchful waiting is the most sensible approach. The number of detransitioners with irreversibly damaged bodies increases because the gender therapists under pressure from the trans lobby,abandoned this principle.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Conversion therapy involving gay or bisexual people involves changing a person's sexual orientation, something which is an innate trait. Conversion therapy for trans people is about helping a person to accept his or her sex and feel more comfortable in his or her skin. In other words, the former is about making you hate yourself and the latter is about helping you to love yourself.

[–]schomee 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

you're so very clueless and misguided. ALMOST ALL gays and lesbians feel dysphoria. I felt it to a suicidal degree and so did all of my friends except for one. Guess what the determining variable for the intensity of the dysphoria was? Homophobia. The one who never felt dysphoria wasnt in a homophobic environment.

And there's no such thing as "trans". "transing" is a solution to dysphoria. It is NOT an identity. AGP is another concept but it is not an identity.

You already lost any hope of correcting, persuading or "winning" any argument because you've accepted so many insane presuppositions that before you even uttered a word, you already lost.

This is like when gays and lesbians dont understand that when they lie and say, "trans women are women and trans men are men"...you immediately accept the premise that you are a perverted, degenerate genital fetishist because if the only difference between a straight man in a wig and a lesbian is a penis, well then the lesbians are genital fetishists and freaks (but no one pays attention to the presuppositions they tacitly accept, like you).

You cant convert "trans" because there is no such thing as "trans" people as an identity

Transing IS the conversion therapy for gays and lesbians and for AGP and AAP fetishists

Do you seriously not understand what you're doing? lol This is like women saying rape is when you sexually assault someone. And then men going, "well rape is also depriving someone of sex" so then women are rapists for depriving men of rape. Transexualism is not an identity; it is a solution for something and that solution is wrong.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

OP is trying to negate/deactivate a rhetorical point that is often used by TRAs. I don't see them buying into trans ideology. Rather, it's more like, "if what you say is true, then there should be evidence of it ..." If there is no evidence, then the assertion is much less likely to be true.

[–]schomee 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The poster is saying he's looking for cases of trans people being attacked by conversion therapy. I understand exactly what he's doing. He's engaging to flip around a piece of rhetoric to throw back at them but he's playing around with rhetoric that's loaded with massive suppositions which he inherently accepts by accident.

This is a trick in rhetorical games where you have to accept a certain premise to respond to their rhetoric.

And i've heard this trans talking point as well: "you're trying to convert people with gender dysphoria"..which is what these people are doing, transexualizing them to "fix" their dysphoria. There are no examples of this because "transing" people IS the conversion therapy.

And he's not aware of the lingo but the word he's looking for is "de transitioners". The key to responding to their rhetoric is the de-transitioners who were manipulated into transitioning as a solution to their dysphoria and it was a disaster for them.

[–]Rage-Xion[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks. I indeed don't buy into "gender identity" though I do think gender disphoria and autogynephilia are real.

[–]JulienMayfair 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

ALMOST ALL gays and lesbians feel dysphoria.

I never felt dysphoria, nor have I ever heard many gay men discuss it.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

u/exponent2

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All testimonies I find from survivors are from same-sex attracted people (LGB) and not from trans people

Trans people can be LGB. Sexuality and gender identity are different.

A homosexual male who transitions is still a homosexual male. Humans cannot change sex, no matter how much plastic surgery and cross-sex hormones they take.

We can give you info about LGB people most certainly - but if you're also looking for testimony from straight people, then you should look OUTSIDE of this or any other LGB sub.

s/detrans (and their Reddit counterpart, r/detrans) would be a good place to start. You can probably also get receipts from Gender Critical sites like s/GenderCritical or their website Ovarit.com.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are some people who as they go through puberty they have issues with their body, and they think they are trans. So there are therapies to help them deal with their body issues, to help them to see and feel (relatively speaking) good about their body like most people. If it works then the person usually sees it isn’t about needing to transition. The radicals see this as conversion therapy, as if you were converting a trans person to cos, which makes no sense.

So anyone who tried to work out their issues without transitioning, are considered to be like trying to convert a gay person.

[–]slushpilot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The words themselves are weird, and the connotations attached to them are understood differently by different people. I think that's part of why we can't agree (or else, some actually don't want to agree) on any of this.

  1. Gender, some people think it means sex. When you take it to mean biology, that sounds like the part that needs to be addressed. If you take it to mean a social construct, well then it's more about expectations & stereotypes. Those can be addressed with therapy, instead of starting with physical interventions.

  2. Dysphoria, just means an unhappiness, a malaise, or literally a dis-ease. (The opposite of euphoria.) So if someone is unsettled with the reality of their own body, that is by definition an unhealthy state of mind—and should be treated as such. Cult activists would argue for a different meaning, and want to see dysphoria de-classified as a mental health condition.

are there cases of therapy for gender disphoria that made trans people fell worse than just transitioning?

This is exactly the right question. Personally, I would never say just transitioning since that is such an invasive approach. It would be impossible to prove this within one individual, but there were studies that showed no benefit from transitioning. Unsurprisingly, these were withheld from publishing until they were forced to by the British courts.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-tavistocks-experiment-with-puberty-blockers-part-5-the-belated-results/

If we can show there is no benefit, then it logically follows there can only be harm—from the countless false-positives that will inevitably come up after the current trend among children and young adults gets old.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

However, I cant find on internet cases of conversion therapy for trans people.

It's a good question you raise. I don't know of any either, but I would be fascinated to see some. Seems one of those things where the "burden of proof" is on the people positing the existence of trans conversion therapy... Although I don't even know how you'd prove the existence of it, given that the theory of "gender identity" is unfalsifiable and you can't measure "gender identity" in any way.

[–]PassionateIntensity 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not that I am aware of. What the trans community means by "conversion therapy" is any kind of psychological help that's not 100% affirmation. "Watch and wait" is conversion therapy in their lingo and they got clinics (Zucker's CAMH) closed for it. However it "works" (in the sense the majority desisted):

https://archive.is/9CsVn

https://archive.ph/TyFjA

It's part of the giant con they're pulling to 'create' more 'trans people' with puberty blockers. (By which I mean these people persist longer) https://www.transgendertrend.com/the-tavistocks-experiment-with-puberty-blockers-part-5-the-belated-results/

The evidence for transition as treatment has never been robust: https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2020/02/60143/ https://jessesingal.substack.com/p/how-science-based-medicine-botched