DiscussionDo you think many non-binary people become trans?

submitted by louisa_emythox from self.LGBDropTheT

So, I know a lesbian who recently came out as a they/them non-binary. She's never been a tomboy and always has been pretty feminine. When she came out as NB she cut her hair short and started to wear more "androgynous" stuff like oversize shirts and shorts and speaks about gender euphoria when she's dressed like this. I think she doesn't look masculine at all and looks even younger now, like a 12yo (she's in her early twenties).

I know the people here have seen a lot of lesbians coming out as NB, so my question is: did many of them ended up transitioning to male? For now I can't imagine this girl transitioning, but she changed quite a lot these last months and I wonder where the non-binary path is taking her. Any thoughts?

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[–]strawberrycake 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I’m a desister technically. Thought I was genderfluid/non-binary/whatever then a trans woman for a bit. Never medically transitioned.

These in-between genders are still dangerous in my opinion. I watched a few videos from detransitioners who once thought they were something in-between until transitioning to a trans woman or trans man. And as I mentioned, I went from being a nebulous gender to contemplating medical transition as a trans woman.

All the detransitioners I’ve watched (and I agree with them) say that if you believe in gender identity then gender becomes a spirit quest of sorts. You are constantly searching for the true self. So yes, it’s likely that if she continues this spiritual journey that she may come to the conclusion of transitioning.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So I always thought of nb as a sort of philosophical belief, personal belief about sex roles and such, but someone said they also experience gender dysphoria, like trans people. Did you?

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It truly is religious-like belief which I am so allergic to as someone non-religious and done with religious dogma. Crazy how people are still so prone to secular religious seeing the cult of gender identity. Terrifying.

[–]strawberrycake 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most humans have a desire to believe in something greater than ourselves. Even the most rational of humans. Anyone is prone to ideology. Clearly this is the case with modern day events…

I don’t think I’m particularly smart for what it’s worth but what I will say is that I was raised in a very Catholic family. The blueprint was there despite my rejecting religion in Catholic school. My conclusion is that secularism does not necessarily equate to rationality. Something will take its place.

[–]strawberrycake 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was more in the genderfluid/genderqueer camp of non-binary. The biggest issue with it is that it has no concrete definition so anyone can identify under this “umbrella”. So for me, I did not view myself as a sexless being but instead desired to be female. This feeling was not consistent and therefore I believed I was in-between. Of course exposing myself to trans propaganda made these feelings worse which is why my desire to be female morphed into a desire to be a trans woman later on. I’ve hated my body until very recently so I think general body dysmorphia got into the mix.

I believe you are correct, though. Most enbies are buying into some sort of philosophical belief (a religious rebirth of the self). If the person is experiencing body issues and mental health issues (I was to severe degrees) then that is a recipe to join any sort of ideology. Unlike transsexuals I personally don’t believe non-binary is real outside of a spiritual context.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I believe the majority are attention whores.

[–]usehername 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If she was just a she/they, I'd say she's probably not going to transition, but the fact that she's already demanding that no one call her "she" makes me think it's possible, but not certain.

[–]millicentfawcett 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

NB females have a strong likelihood of eventually having a mastectomy and dabbling in hormone treatments even if they retain the NB label.

It's another one of those incongruous things about this ideology - despite non binary supposedly meaning neither sex it seems in young women it actually ends up favouring the male appearance and identity. Hence a lot of NB girls going by he/they.

NB males overall seem to do less that could be physically harmful. It's often just about wearing makeup and having a beard (plus a huge amount of ego and entitlement).

It's definitely a gateway identity especially if you're female.

[–]Daddiescummies 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, I think many straight people identify as "non-binary" so they can openly express their homophobic ideas and police gay people, then pull the "trans" card when people call them out on their homophobic actions.

[–]Neo_Shadow_LurkerPronouns: I/Don't/Care 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This might sound a little pedantic, but by the standards of TRA ideology, non-binary identities are already part of the transgender unbrella, which makes any non-binary person transgender already.

By this perspective, it's not surprising that 'enby' identified people eventualy start seeking medical transition.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Technically "nonbinary" is a type of trans. It sounds like you are asking whether nonbinary-identified people medically transition?

To my knowledge, the answer is yes, some do, but not all-- and fewer "nonbinary" than binary transgender-identified people medically transition.

  • This paper found that in its recruited sample, 74% of binary trans had gone to a gender identity clinic for services, and 42% of nonbinary trans had.

I've met a few female nonbinary-identified people, but some of them were exclusively opposite sex attracted (straight), not LGB.

I would say, per the article I linked, that there's a much higher chance of medical transition if the person identifies as binary trans as opposed to nonbinary. I am inclined to believe that that's partly because binary trans-identified people seem much more interested in "passing" as the sex they're not, whereas many nonbinary-identified people don't seem to care at all about passing and some even seem to want the additional attention.

I know that the stereotype on this sub-- and it's an understandable one-- is that "anyone who says they're nonbinary is just doing it for attention." However, that stereotype accurately describes only ONE subgroup of nonbinary. I have met a woman who self-identifies as nonbinary, for example, who seems to have changed literally nothing about her appearance or behavior after "coming out as nonbinary" and is just gender-nonconforming. Perhaps your friend might be similar.

edit: Also I agree with strawberrycake's answer. Nonbinary identification can still be a road to the harmful medicalization route.

[–]sadbihours 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve been told on many occasions that NB IS Trans though they get pressured a lot by Trans Men and Women to pick an identity so there’s a lot of internal issues even among TRAs to see it as valid.