LifestyleHas anyone else tried to talk someone out of "transition"?

submitted by 7874 from self.LGBDropTheT

This lesbian I know is getting her genitals removed tomorrow and I think I got too emotional trying to talk her out of it and she's ignoring me now.

It just hurts so much watching this happen to homosexuals and not being able to do anything about it. Sorry for the rant post. I should be working but I just can't believe this. And the worst part is if I had stayed calmer and more neutral maybe I could have talked her out of it.

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[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

And the worst part is if I had stayed calmer and more neutral maybe I could have talked her out of it.

I wouldn't think like this or blame yourself. Maybe there's a slim chance you could have talked her out of it, but probably not. The truth is that most people don't change their minds about anything unless they come to a new conclusion on their own. And people have had their minds made up for them about this stuff by some pretty strong propaganda (and deliberate social engineering if you ask me). Sorry about your friend.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There's also research which shows that the more consequential a decision, the less likely a person is to change their mind after the fact.

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep. This is why I am so skeptical of studies claiming how trans people never regret their transition. I can imagine it's incredibly hard to admit regret after so much effort put into transition - since it requires a lot of work and time (and what kept such person going was the hope with each step it should be getting better... until they realize it never will).

[–]7874[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

deliberate social engineering

How and why?

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

How? Social media influence, propaganda, censoring and no-platforming dissidents, selective media coverage that downplays or outright ignores anything that goes against the narrative... basically the stuff we talk about on here all the time.

As for WHY, I'm not really sure. There seems like there's a few possible reasons. It could simply be about profit. As some trans people themselves acknowledge, being trans can be pretty expensive between the hormones and cosmetic surgeries. Though I'm not sure if it's QUITE profitable enough to be worth all this effort. Or it could be as simple as TRAs trying to recruit and reel in as many people as possible simply to expand their numbers.

It could also be that trans activism is simply being used as a tool to hurt other human rights movements or left-wing parties in general. We've seen how divisive trans activism is. Feminism has been completely split between pro-trans libfems and gender-critical/radfems, LGB spaces are divided or completely shut down, even a lot of normie liberals are getting fed up. I believe TRAs also pretty much got some communist book fair shut down. Or it could just be the wealthy elite stirring up trouble in order to keep the working and middle class divided like they usually do. Your guess is as good as mine.

[–]7874[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I personally don't think it's a coordinated effort by some malicious force. "Transing" homosexuals has been going on since at least the beginning of written history. It occurs independently in cultures that have no contact with one another. The only thing that's different this time (other than more advanced technology and "medicine") is that now heterosexuals (mostly heteros who are gender non-conforming) are also being transed.

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I'm really gonna have to disagree with you there. Heterosexuals being transed isn't the only thing that's new. You're right that transing homosexuals isn't new, but one big difference is that in the past it was mostly targeted at gay men. Many people on here have pointed out that most cultures with "third genders" are mostly/only for men, not women. But now there's been a massive spike in females id'ing as trans- they account for most ROGD cases. So the large scale transing of females is pretty new. The ever growing list of "non-binary" genders is new. The biological sex denialism is new. The insistence that trans people be seen and treated as though they're exactly the same as a member of the opposite sex is new. The whole cult-like atmosphere surrounding this modern trans movement and the witch-hunting of so-called "TERFs" is all pretty different to stuff seen in the past.

It's too hard for me to look at formerly reasonable or otherwise reasonable people frothing at the mouth and swearing up and down that biological sex is a social construct and TWAW/TMAM!!, and think that this all happened organically.

[–]7874[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All of those things are easily explained by culture, cultural changes, psychology, and the creation of trans "medicine". Not everything is a conspiracy.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

However, they generally tend to keep their genitals intact (since they can go back to being straight when this is no longer popular), as opposed to homosexuals who tend to be more likely to remove their genitals as they genuinely believe they'll be happier as "straight" people.

[–]holy_goat 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

the why is simple, its not intentional. it's because they become jannies (the incels who become "lesbians" also happen to be the people who love becoming admins and moderators for online communities)

[–]7874[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think you meant to respond to u/TransspeciesUnicorn

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Your submission has been removed due to:

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    [–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

    She’s...having her... genitals.... removed.... And you thought you can rationally talk her out of it?

    I know it’s upsetting to see but you know, I doubt there’s anything you could have said.

    [–]7874[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    She actually ended up talking to me for a bit after I posted this, but stopped responding and I think she's sleeping now. She said some of my arguments were convincing, but she "wasn't going to let that stop [her]". She has a lot of doubt and anxiety about the whole thing, but is convinced that it's all "irrational" and this is going to "cure" her crippling dysphoria. I went into detail for several hours about the origins of dysphoria (homophobia) and the history of "transing" homosexuals.

    [–]holy_goat 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Does she know about a lot of the censorship of bad results and regrets from those surgeries?

    https://kiwifarms.net/threads/srs-and-grs-surgeons-and-associated-horrors.76786/

    [–]7874[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    She wasn't even getting phalloplasty. It was "genital nullification" which is complete vaginectomy and removal of all outside organs like the clitoris and labia, leaving her "smooth" (her words, but I'm sure the scars will be horrific) other than her urethra. I told her she would never cum again and there would be numbness or chronic pain from nerve damage but she did not care.

    [–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    And the worst part is if I had stayed calmer and more neutral maybe I could have talked her out of it.

    Hey. Don't blame yourself. Ultimately, at the end of the day, a person can't control anyone else's actions and choices, only their own. You did your best by trying; I'm proud of you for that. And who knows, maybe you wouldn't have been successful no matter how emotive were.

    To answer your question-- I haven't been in that position before with someone I know; back when I knew people who were contemplating transition or identifying as transgender, I was naive and unaware of how homophobic the transgender rights movement is, so I wouldn't have thought to talk them out of it. I have seen a couple posts on this sub about people here who have had a similar experience to yours; if I have the time, I'll try to dig them up. You're not alone.

    [–]7874[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I have seen a couple posts on this sub about people here who have had a similar experience to yours; if I have the time, I'll try to dig them up.

    It's okay. I just wanted some advice on how to convince her but it's over. I think she's asleep now and since I didn't convince her tonight, she's almost definitely going to get the surgery in the morning.

    [–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    God, do I know the feeling, OP. Because I've been through this, too... twice.

    Neither were people that I knew well, or IRL. But it was still pretty hard on me. That no matter what I said, or how much I gave of myself... I couldn't reach them; I couldn't find the key. And both are so young! High-school age (him); 21 (her). I felt like I was failing them. Even when she went off on me because of it, put me in an emotional hole... there was still the terrible sense of if only I'd tried harder, thought faster, used different words, if only, if only...

    But you can't do any more than try, OP. That's all anyone can do. And how many people will even do THAT, these days? For fear of being branded a transphobe, and getting canceled? Or even just going through what you and I have? Taking the risk of swimming against the tide, and probably failing? Because we care? Because we don't want to see people hurt?

    Please don't blame yourself, OP. Never regret caring. Instead, be proud of yourself that you still can.

    [–]7874[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    She's only 19.

    [–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Some people cannot be saved. You did everything you could. Now it’s all on her. She will just have to suffer the consequences of her poor decisions. But at least you can say that you tried to talk her out of it.

    [–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Ooof. Yeah that sucks, especially since it's tomorrow. It's very hard to watch people do things they will probably regret and not be able to save them from themselves. It isn't weird that you feel stressed and upset about this. I almost had to get into it like this with a friend a year ago but we stopped speaking for other reasons related to her periodic meltdowns (mental health issues, it's just kind of a thing with her now and then so we take a break). She's well over 50 and had discovered trans activists / the cult and thought it would be the answer to everything when it would actually, for her, just be another way to try to run away from her past history of trauma (assault, rape, etc.). I was dreading having to think about trying to stop her. No idea if she went through with anything and am afraid to find out, frankly, because hearing her talk about it like it would help her broke my heart. She's vulnerable enough to go all-in with a cult like this one. Which is ironic because otherwise she has one of the best bullshit detectors of anyone I know. And while she's a sweet person, she's also narcissistic and prone to rages and verbal abuse if cornered, so if I expressed concern about it she'd probably lash out at me. It wouldn't go well, most likely.

    Your friend is so close to the action date that it'd be hard to have an influence. Hopefully she'll resume talking to you down the road but don't be surprised if she goes into her shell for a while; these decisions are so bound up with mental health, insecurity, etc. that people can be really protective when challenged about something so personal. I'd just let it lie if I were you. Maybe, if it feels appropriate at some point soon, tell her you hope she's doing okay, let her know you are around and still her friend and your door is open if she wants to talk. You'll probably have to let her come to you and decide how she wants to interact or what she wants to talk about.

    You aren't required to talk about this subject with her to be her friend. And that might be a path you can both take together until things become more settled.

    [–]7874[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    She wasn't really offended by anything I said, just unresponsive.

    [–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Hmm, maybe that's a good sign.

    [–]7874[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    She got the surgery anyway so it wasn't.

    [–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    You can't really force someone to change their mind. They have to really do it on their own sadly. So she has to realize herself the mistake she has done.