DiscussionDoes anyone else find men playing "lesbian" roles and women playing "gay man" roles problematic?

submitted by UWUness from self.LGBDropTheT

White actors being cast in non-white roles has often been met with widespread protest.

Why wouldn't men playing "lesbian" characters and women playing "gay man" characters be met with similar backlash?

YouTube often recommends this video of a woman playing a "gay man" to me eventhough I am not subscribed to this channel, nor do I watch its videos: https://youtu.be/SidL-ulL6l8

The woman is the one with the long blondish hair: https://www.instagram.com/htmaieltt_/

Her insta was in the pinned comment.

The viewers defended this because "they couldn't find a man that looks like a woman. They had to give the role to a woman".

The comment section mostly consisted of claims such as "a cis man and a trans man together is gay, trans men are biological men": https://imgur.com/a/FeGlNAM

All of which has me believe homophobia is a factor contributing to the casting of a woman, instead of a man. "Trans-identified" men and "trans-identified" women are more tolerated than openly gay people are, even in more conservative countries such as Japan, Korea, etc, after all. The producers most likely wanted to cast a woman for it to feel "not gay enough".

A man does not understand the experiences of lesbians the way lesbians do, and a woman does not understand the experiences of gay men the way gay men do.

People who have the most context to play gay characters are the ones that should be given the opportunities.

So I've been wondering if anyone else finds men playing "lesbian" roles and women playing "gay man" roles problematic?

There are more "urgent" issues of course. We have to fight against explicit forms of homophobia. However, in the eye of that storm, many forms of implicit homophobia go overlooked. Of these, men playing "lesbian" roles and women playing "gay man" roles takes over social media.

And if people can not fix these simpler issues, I don't see how they can fix more urgent issues.

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[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

so the woman with a ponytail is supposed to be a gay male character? Because thats the most ridiculous thing. She doesn't read a male at all. I don't think I've ever seen that before, women playing gay men, is this an asian thing? Or a tik tok thing?

There are more "urgent" issues of course.

Yes, but this is part of the underlying problem, of pretending we can't see someone's sex, and pretending a straight couple is gay.

[–]UWUness[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Because thats the most ridiculous thing. She doesn't read a male at all

I know right? It's clear as day the one with the ponytail is a woman. I didn't even "question" it's a woman I'm looking at.

Is this an asian thing? Or a tik tok thing?

It's a trend, not specific to asia - a tale as old as homophobia. Remember Shakespeare? On his stage, men often played the role of a "woman", in mannerism and costume. I wouldn't be surprised if women played the role of "gay men" and men played the role of "lesbians" back in the days.

But "cosplay", people dressing up like their favorite manga and anime characters, which originated in Japan, may have made it worse? Women, be they non-asian or asian, western or non-western, often play the role of "gay men" in cosplay to give the audience the false idea that e.g. "two hot men are kissing", when it's either a man and a woman, or two women doing so that they hide with a ton of photoshop and editing.

The number of men playing the role of "lesbians" has also been on the rise in cosplay ...

Yes, but this is part of the underlying problem, of pretending we can't see someone's sex, and pretending a straight couple is gay.

Good point! I'd consider women playing the role of "gay men" and men playing the role of "lesbians" an urgent issue myself.

One because it's the base of "transgenderism", for men to pretend to be "women" and for women to pretend to be "men", and two because it implies gay men are "women in men's bodies" and lesbians are "men in women's bodies". Gay men are not like women, and lesbians are not like men. The audience would fail to understand that, especially now that "transgenderism" has taken over them and they are too far gone.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Women weren't allowed to work really. Only men could be actors in those plays so they had to dress up.

[–]UWUness[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because of misogyny. Women were pressured to stay at home and mop the kitchen floor for men. Men playing the roles of "women" has a long history of homophobia and misogyny in it. We shouldn't forget the misogyny for sure.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's a certain type of plot I've seen in both American and Korean entertainment. It doesn't necessarily involve gay characters, but the more general posing as a male. You might be familiar with movies like She's the Man, or Just One of the Guys. Something like that exists in Korean TV(which I've seen mirrored in Japanese and Chinese shows) where there is a female protagonist who dresses masc to go "undercover" as a man for -insert whatever plot reason-, and no one around them can tell they are not male(even though it's blatantly obvious to the audience... I hope).

Over the course of the story, the male lead develops feelings for the protagonist. Confusion and misunderstandings reign. Sometimes the guy may question whether they are gay. Usually the climax of the story is when the female gets into a situation where they are forced to reveal themselves in a way that removes all doubt that they are anything but female.

Anyway, this kind of show in general drives me up the wall since before I can remember because I'm not capable of suspension of belief of this level; Where I can pretend a person is not a man or a women(when they are not in the least bit androgynous) just because they have have short hair and a suit on, but a family member likes to watch them so... I can only be like that dude in Shakespeare in Love and declare,

That woman is a woman!

..over and over.

As I said though, those examples didn't involve a gay character, and the premise is different in that the actress is still playing a female character, just that they supposedly pass so well that no one in the story universe can detect it. In the current example though, the male character can pass so well they can't even find an actual male(even trans) to play him! Hmm... I wonder if that says anything at all about the effectiveness of Transition? Hmm.

Also, there's the TV series Chad. Where a 40 year old actress outright plays the role of a teen boy in high school. Looks nothing like, though.

All these silly stories might be fine if people didn't take and run with them into real life like they had no critical thinking skills. Which is happening more and more often. It's just fiction, people! Leave it in that realm and everyone will be happy.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The viewers defended this because "they couldn't find a man that looks like a woman. They had to give the role to a woman".

Shocking. Very few men look like women; Even less who are actors. The writers should've expected casting problems when they wrote the non-realistic plot. They probably just didn't really care about that.

People who have the most context to play gay characters are the ones that should be given the opportunities.

The most important part of acting is appearance(that eliminates women acting as men and vice versa). And whether they can play the role. I think getting someone of the same orientation is preferable and ideal, but shouldn't be a requirement. Getting the right sex is, though.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Very few men look like women

Nowhere is this more evident than in the TV adaptation of 'Tales of the City', where through the entire series trans landlady Mrs Madrigal was played by Olympia Dukakis. In the most recent and hopefully final series (they ruined it with woke bullshit) they avoided a trans meltdown by having young Mrs Madrigal played by trans actor Jen Richards, who, well...

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

In the most recent and hopefully final series (they ruined it with woke bullshit) they avoided a trans meltdown by having young Mrs Madrigal played by trans actor Jen Richards, who, well...

Oh, how womanly is thy essence..

[–]UWUness[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think getting someone of the same orientation is preferable and ideal, but shouldn't be a requirement. Getting the right sex is, though.

I 100% agree with this. "Sexuality" shouldn't be a requirement, although it would be ideal, but to be able to depict a woman, a lesbian, only a woman should be given that role, and to be able to depict a man, a gay man, only a man should be given that role. As you mentioned, appearance is important.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah of course. The only reason why this doesn't get as much backlash as when it happens with other minority groups is because LGB people are a tiny percentage of the population. And right now, gender identity beliefs are hip and trendy, whereas legitimate homosexuality/bisexuality isn't.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nowadays, I find men playing lesbians (or bisexual women) problematic. Because yes, men generally cannot and do not understand what women go through in our lives. They have to ask and be taught, just like women have to when playing male characters. Every person learns at their own pace, which is OK, but that also means they shouldn't be given free reign to represent us before they do.

Gender and sex has become politicized, and there is no longer even a pretense that LGB people are being heard. It's all about the clout and recognition.

If a male actor can express what women go through in a true way, then I applaud him. For example, Louie Anderson in "Baskets". Not LGB, but very true to life.