all 32 comments

[–][deleted]  (23 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Marou 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

    Aye

    https://www.gra.ch/en/rassismusstrafnorm/provision/

    Being under Swiss law isn't a good thing. If you host a free speech platform the US is the only country that still applies. Ethnically diverse empires always fragment and balkanize along ethnic and/or religious lines over time, it's a story as old as humanity. Increasingly draconian laws are needed to hold together such societies since humans crave self-determination and nobody can live how they please in such an environment.


    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/freedom-of-speech-_anti-racism-law-facing-resistance-from-the-right/38754354

    A few examples from the link:

    Anti-Muslim ideology A man wrote an article entitled: “This is why we shouldn’t give Swiss citizenship to Muslims”, which was published in an unspecified political party newspaper. The Thurgau court found that the article made defamatory claims about Muslims as a group and rejected the defendant’s argument that Muslims could not be subject to anti-racism law as Muslims were not a race.

    The man was fined CHF170 plus a suspended fine of CHF5,400.

    Source: Court summary published by the Federal Commission against Racism.

    The former president of the Federal Commission Against Racism (1995 – 2011), Georg Kreis, wrote an opinion piece in the tageswoche.ch news website in January reacting to just such a case, lamenting the fact that a comment made by a “satirist” in a television interview drawing on the stereotype of the “money-grabbing Jew” had led to an official complaint to prosecutors.

    Alexander Tschäppätt, Bern’s Social Democrat mayor, also found himself in hot water after jokes he made in a stand-up comedy routine last December about Italians being lazy didn’t go down well. A Swiss-Italian lawyer in Basel made a complaint against him which is now being examined by Bern’s prosecutor’s office.


    For now at least, speech restrictions are minimal in the US. Freedom of association is well and dead, and you can't peaceably assemble anymore depending on what your views are because the police won't protect you from communist agitators (and will prosecute you if you protect yourself), but at least we can bitch about it online for the moment... (anonymously, lest you lose your job and ability to conduct financial transactions).

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]lumberjohn 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

      Wouldn't need to tape over those badges in the US tho. Well, not west of the Rockies...

      [–]DeepakChokrah 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

      Age

      [–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

      Considering how many people will be arguing each way on every topic, I doubt anyone will get involved. They probably would, however, if the site gets big and completely overrun with Pyramid-ignoring racists (which fortunately isn't the case at the moment).

      [–]Marou 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

      The problem with "Anti-Racism" and "Hate speech" laws is that you can make an argument that is situated right at the top of the debate pyramid (and back it with reams of evidence) that is still illegal - because under such laws it is not the truth of a statement being evaluated, it is intent and how the statement makes people feel.

      [–][deleted]  (12 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]magnora7[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

        Switzerland doesn't have dragnet spying operations. Switzerland can't shut down saidit without first going to a judge and getting approval.

        In the US, they can just decide we're done and pull the plug one day. In Switzerland, they cannot do that without a long process that would give us plenty of time to set up a new server.

        This is an extra layer of security.

        And if you believe the laws in the US about internet free speech are actually being honored to their true intent in 2019 in US courtrooms, I have a bridge to sell you.

        Overall I have little doubt this provides saidit more layers of security and failsafes. US law isn't bad, but Swiss law is better. Especially when it comes to avoiding having your server shut down by external organizations.

        [–][deleted]  (7 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]magnora7[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

          even in Switzerland.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial#Switzerland

          Thankfully you're wrong on that. The racial discrimination law they do have matches up with the pyramid of debate fairly well. I actually think it'll work out well.

          If they seize the server, we can just set up in other country. If they seize it in the US, I might go to jail and be unable to do that at all. This is another layer of security.

          I think Switzerland is much safer, and they fact they don't fuck around protects us from big organizations more than it hurts us. But I appreciate the concerns and the points you raise, and I'm all ears if you've got more points.

          [–][deleted]  (2 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            Thanks for the info. We have considered a VPN, but it's not compatible with our DDOS protection. We'll be sure to keep an eye out for the problems you mentioned.

            [–]Timmy 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            A question. What if they do not deny the Holocaust existed, but claim, based on recorded International Red Cross documents, that the number of people that died in German WWII prison camps was much lower than six million? Do you think that would be considered illegal? The fact is not in dispute, just a supporting claim.

            [–]sodasplash 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Maybe the press could help by reporting the details of the case.

            [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            In the same way WikiSpooks provides a site backup https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Wikispooks:Site_Backup maybe SaidIt can do the same as a baby step towards decentralization.

            [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            I concur. Another aspect to privacy is anonymity, which obviously is not a concern of mine.

            [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            A+++ comment.

            [–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Yes this will change to swiss law. I'm aware there are a few things that are more restrictive, but I don't know exactly what those things are. Worst case scenario we can just move servers back to the US if we run in to problems down the road.

            [–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

            [–]dark_devil_dd 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Good work

            [–]XYY 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

            qqquestion!- how long does Saidit exist?....ps did yeh know when saying Saidit quickly after eachother, so Saiditsaidtisaidit it sounds like "sadist", or is that because of my bad English😕

            [–]the_real_farfetchd 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            If you look at the first post ever, https://saidit.net/s/pics/comments/1/, since at least Sep 2017. Not sure if that's actually accurate, though.

            [–]XYY 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            oke thanks, that gives me a rough indication

            [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            It looks like a test post with randomly generated comment snippets that make no sense from a lot of users not seen before.

            Seems like that is earlier than the first official post, Wednesday 2017-10-11, at 09:43:20 UTC : s/AntiExtremes/comments/3a/welcome_to_antiextremescom/

            [–]magnora7[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

            Saidit has been around for about 17 months now I guess, and we plan to be around for a long time to come. :) The second part might be just you haha

            [–]Snow 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            I guess I got banned on more than 30 websites/forums already, (too many ,not remember exactly...) I don't know how long I can stay.

            [–]XYY 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            you mean HERE on SAIDIT, WTF i mean really WTF did you do then, i got crap on reddit all the time but never on Saidit...yet?😕🙄😮

            [–]Snow 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            No,I didn't get banned on SAIDIT,I just ...always having some problems with mods of different sites.

            [–]XYY 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            😄oke thanks for info

            [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            [–]XYY 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

            It says "Not to be confused with the similar websites Reddit"😄 ha, dont worry about that...thanks btw

            [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Those hat links are actually more helpful than you'd imagine in an encyclopedia. I try to insert fun in them too when I can.

            [–]TheWeedyGod 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            Cool stuff, thanks

            [–]TimesThreeTheHighest 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

            Move to Switzerland? Guess it worked for the Nazis!

            [–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            I have a question: How might this affect free speech?

            For example, many country don't allow you to question the Holocaust. Even my Canada has laws about it, though they're rarely enforced. In some places in Europe they're not so lenient.

            Is it worth researching what is and is not permitted in Switzerland?

            EDIT: It appears it's discussed further down in these comments.